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Post by buffymanic on Nov 11, 2005 20:39:43 GMT 10
This topic came up over on BT so I brought it over here thinking I'd get a more adult discussion about it So do you believe Faith deserves to be forgiven for all her crimes including both those committed against the law + the moral crimes she comitted against Buffy? I have always had a fondness for Faith but lately this is increasing due to the amount of times I've stepped up to defend her. My opinion is that Faith did some very awful things in Buffy season 3 + 4 including some of Angel season 1 but through the time she spent with Angel, in jail + again helping team Angel in season 4 I believe she has redeamed herself. 1. She realised her wrongdoings and took responsibility for them by giveing herself in 2. She was willing to stay in jail for however many years she had been sentenced 3. when Wes came to break her out she wouldn't do so until she realised Angel was in trouble 4. She risked her life by injecting herself with Orpheus in order to stop Angelus and save Angel- the old Faith would never have done so 5. She did her best to apologise to Buffy even though she would not accept it Now for some people on BT all this doesn't seem to be enough but I was hoping over here we could atleat have an adult discussion
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Post by Bre on Nov 14, 2005 5:48:56 GMT 10
After what she did in Angel to save him and after helping to defeat the First on Buffy, I definitely think she should be forgiven. I truly believe she has changed from the badass murderer that she was. Now, if the Mayor was still alive, things might be different, because he really loved her. I think whoever truly cares about her, Faith will go to their side. The Mayor, for example, was evil and truly cared about her, so she became evil. Then Angel, for another example, was good and also cared about her, so she became good. She is a very easily influenced.
And I agree with all the five points you listed above.
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Post by buffymanic on Nov 15, 2005 9:25:08 GMT 10
was begining to think everybody had missed this! lol
Yeh I think your right Faith is very much looking for love and acceptance and I believe that if she had been allowed that connection with Angel in the 1st place she would never have gone to the Mayor.
Wesley pushed her over the edge and the more I think about it the more I can justify her actions or reactions rather to the situations she found herself. When faced with being put in front of the council I think Faith was reasonable with the reactions and placing blame on Buffy, then when Wes took her she most probably believed that she would be killed by the council!
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Post by Beck on Nov 19, 2005 18:48:17 GMT 10
Faith was looking for love and acceptance even when she first arrived in Sunnydale. Sure the power of being a slayer made her arrogant and gave her a power trip, bue at the beginning she was definately about getting evil off the streets. Her relationship with Buffy was strong at the beginning, and it was only when Faith felt backed into a corner by Buffy after killing the deputy mayar, and perhaps feeling a deep sense of grief that because of her upbringing and need to protect herself and give off the appearance of a carefree girl, she could not or would not acknowledge. So instead of dealing with her grief (which I do believe she had...) she turned away from those she percieved as ganging up on her - and did what many rebellious teenagers do - she went to the other side.
There she found the Mayor, a father figure who truly cared about her. For the first time in her life, someone loved her and it wasn't always about someone else (such as Buffy). She yearned for that love her whole life, she would have done anything for him. Not smart, but I wouldn't say that made her evil.
She did some horrible things, both to Buffy and others, but she showed in Angel that she was sorry for what she'd done, she by that stage loathed herself and what she had become. She referred to herself as a monster. She showed a willingness to repent and redeem herself. She showed remorse. She helped out Angel, and then everyone in Season 7 for no reason other than it was right, and she wanted to help. It must have been damn hard for her to go back to Sunnydale and face Buffy - the one person who's respect and love Faith always wanted but never felt she had, despite her actions towrads her - after everything that happened.
Does Faith deserve forgiveness? In who's eyes? She probably does not deserve forgiveness from Buffy, but from her crimes, from the law? I think she does.
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Post by buffymanic on May 2, 2006 3:16:45 GMT 10
*Bump* anybody else have an opinion?
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foxmulder
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Post by foxmulder on May 24, 2006 9:30:11 GMT 10
I think that Faith desserves forgiveness because she really did change for the better. I mean she still has just as much spunk as ever, that goes without saying. But she's no longer evil at all.
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May 18, 2024 22:47:58 GMT 10
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2006 14:58:28 GMT 10
I agree. Faith did some terrible things in her lifetime, but has genuinely turned away from that life. I feel she deserves forgiveness and a second chance. I realize that doesn't mean everyone will forget what she did and be buddy-buddy with her immediately, but they should recognize that she's changed and try to move past it.
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comfortador35
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May 18, 2024 22:47:58 GMT 10
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Post by comfortador35 on May 25, 2006 17:28:03 GMT 10
Faith deserves forgiveness because the good things she's done over values the wrong. If faith doesn't deserve forgiveness, neither does Willow for almost destroying the world, or Giles for being a little trouble maker and making demons and such. Faith deserves forgiveness because all of the slayer gang makes mistakes. Her's might have been a bit more...evil in some ways, but I think it's the same concept.
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Post by Casi on May 26, 2006 3:57:53 GMT 10
Well, it's a complicated situation to be sure. And, were it anyone else, I don't think I would be on the "She deserves forgiveness" bandwagon. But, if there is anything that we've learned from Buffy, it's that the slayer, in the end, isn't above the law, they ARE the law.
I think, personally, that had Faith been older, she probably would have been given the death penalty for the things she did. If they had evidence, of course, which I'm not sure they did. And I think, at that point in time, she probably deserved it.
But after what she did in the end. She really did atone. And, again, Slayers have a special set of rules that they live and work by so they can't really be held accountable in the way that Joe Shmoe down the street can.
I don't think she can ever truly be forgiven for what she did because I don't think she'll ever forgive herself, and maybe thats a good thing. Maybe thats what will keep her from going down that road again the next time things get to be too much for her. She's older now, and she knows what could happen if she does. So I guess I'm saying yes she deserves forgiveness, but I don't think should get it, if that makes any sense whatsoever.
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Post by Kana on May 28, 2006 22:09:54 GMT 10
I think I agree with Giles in that forgiveness is an act of compassion. Faith can never restore the lives she's taken and she'll live with her actions for the rest of her life. Funny thing about redemption and reconciling yourself with your 'soul' is the more you do it, the more it haunts you. You have to allow yourself to feel the compassion, the kinship towards other human beings so the guilt should never really ever go away. This doesn't mean, others shouldn't forgive you, but it's their choice.
Faith's functionality as human being and as a Slayer may or may not stand the test of time but it's up to her, no one else. It isn't about people accepting you, it's about what you can do for the cause, how you can help. Fortunately Faith has got people on her side and a clear sense of compassion so she has a cahnce.
Should Faith forgive herself? That's up to her. One can forgive themselves and also still feel guity. It's about Self-loathing which is something that Faith has done probably all her life and it led to her arrogance and her descent into darkness. So from a pratical angle I think she should at least stop hating herself simply because a self-loathing slayer is no good to anyone.
Call me an idealist (many do and get away with it) but I believe Faith can find love and happiness, because whatever people have done in their past, and what they've suffered, it doesn't have to define who they are and who they can be. Faith has a chance at redemption, it's up to her to take it and it's not reliant on whether others will forgive her or not or even if the balance sheet is ever going to be in her favour.
God I am like Angel, I do get a little speechy. lol
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Post by buffymanic on Jun 4, 2006 6:46:49 GMT 10
well put I think.
True Faith needs to forgive herself for all that she has done but, with everybody trying to put her down all the time and reminding her of all her wrongdoings it makes it an awful lot harder. I don't think Willow would have been able to forgive herself for what she did if her friends hadn't accepted her back
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secret
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May 18, 2024 22:47:58 GMT 10
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Post by secret on Jun 10, 2006 23:49:24 GMT 10
I think faith does deserve forgiveness. By the end of the Buffy series, she had shown herself to be compassionate, and maybe not a great leader- but someone who truly wanted to fight the good fight. Her lonliness is what drove her to the Mayor and her twisted morals were even more twisted under the parentship of Mayor Wilkins. Yet, I think Angel greatly helped her to improve too.
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Post by Beck on Apr 21, 2007 14:43:28 GMT 10
Does anyone disagree and think Faith doesn't deserve forgiveness? And who does she deserve forgiveness from? Everyone?
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Post by Allan on Apr 21, 2007 22:42:07 GMT 10
As an unabashed Faith fetishist, I'm going to say yes, yes, yes, she deserves forgiveness.
She was always an outsider and felt alone, which the Mayor honed in on, and exploited to use her dark side for her own gain. Granted, she did some horrible things, but she atoned for them, IMO.
Should those she affected on a more personal level forgive her? I think they should, though it's obviously something that would be difficult, and they would need to find in their hearts.
On a similar aspect, do people think that Faith should have gone back to jail and turned herself in after saving the world from the apocalyse?
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Post by Laura on Apr 22, 2007 1:04:08 GMT 10
I definitely think Faith deserves forgiveness. She made some wrong choices, and she did some pretty stupid things, but who hasn't? A lot of characters on the show have seemed to go through a pretty dark stage of their life, and yet they were forgiven. Why shouldn't Faith be? She did personally target Buffy in season 4, but she needed help. All the things she did were a cry of help, yet Buffy seemed to give up on her. It was understandable for Buffy to give up, but Angel was the only one who hadn't, and as he discovered in "Five by Five", she did a lot of those things out of hate of herself. How can you blame someone for confusion, depression, or whatever else she was feeling? Not everyone goes evil because of it, but that's just how it affected Faith.
After she turned herself into jail, did her time until Angel needed help, and then continued helping the force of good- I think it was time she was definitely forgiven, even by Buffy.
I don't think she needs to go back to jail after the apocalypse, though. Turning herself in was a huge improvement for her, and she stayed until help was needed. I don't think it would be fair to just push her back after she helped with the apocalypse.
Wesley was another one hesitant to forgive Faith, especially after he tortured her. Do you guys think he deserves to forgive her as well?
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Post by buffymanic on Jul 12, 2007 20:05:56 GMT 10
Seeing as how I love Faith and we have new members I'd like to bring this up again. more opinions people
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Post by shred on Jul 14, 2007 0:29:50 GMT 10
I think Faith does deserve forgiveness. She's trying to make amends now and Buffy and the gang should take that into consideration now. If she is still on the war path, then no, she doesn't deserve forgiveness.
But I can understand why Buffy or any of the Scoobies wouldn't forgive her right away. It would take time for them to warm up to her and to get past the things that she did to them. But eventually I think the Scoobies - and Buffy especially - should forgive her.
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spikeluvva
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May 18, 2024 22:47:58 GMT 10
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Post by spikeluvva on Aug 10, 2007 23:32:06 GMT 10
I think that Faith deserves forgiveness, absolutely. I mean, yeah she did some pretty horrible things not only to Buffy and Angel, but also to Giles, Willow, Cordelia and then of course we can't forget about Wesley. She tortured him while waiting for Angel to come so that she could dight him and finish her job. But she really did redeem herself in Season 4 of Angel when she helped Wesley and almost died trying to get Angel back and then again when she helped Buffy and the gang in Sunnydale defeat the first. I think she has definately earned her forgiveness.
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Post by Lizzie on Sept 12, 2007 8:40:14 GMT 10
I don't think Faith is a cold, heartless killer. I think she's a messed up girl, who has had a pretty bad life. Yes, she's done some terrible things, but I think she's definitely earned forgiveness. Through her actions, she redeems herself.
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Post by Allan on Sept 12, 2007 9:03:14 GMT 10
With that, do you think she's currently done enough, or more that she is on the road to redemption?
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