Wesley

[Glenn]

SO what do we think of Wesley. I believe Wesley had one of the biggest arcs and character developments i have ever seen anywhere. He went through so much and came out the other side a better person for it. Not all of his decision were the best but he usually made them truly believing he was doing the right thing and protecting those he loved.

What do you think, was Wes a screw up for making some vital errors in his time, or did he prove a worthy comrade and friend?

[Allan]

I'm going to say in no way was he a screw up; as far as Angel went. I found him amusing in an annoying way through Buffy, but in Angel we really saw him grow into himself. He broke past his father's "conditioning" to become a great, powerful ally.

I think it comes down to rising to the occasion. In Buffy, and earlier episodes of Angel, he had "support" - or the heroes' of the story doing the hard yards. In the latter episodes of Angel, he didn't have such support (or at the very least, didn't feel he had the support), which forced him to grow up in many ways, and take responsibility for himself.

His relationship with Fred was beautiful, and his "acceptance" and torn feelings in relation to Illyria, were great.

IMO, he's one of the Whedonverse's more interesting characters.

[Kana]

I'm kind of annoyed because I thought I wrote a mini essay on Wes but only have one on Gunn (which is weird because Wes is one of my favourite characters).

Anyway to summarise some Wesley defining moments:

1) Coming to L.A.
2) Choosing Angel over the Watcher’s Council.
3) Being able to engage in a mature adult relationship and dealing with the end with some of the greatest dignity I’ve ever seen on Buffyverse.
4) Becoming a competent leader.
5) Falling in love with Fred
6) His inaction as far as pursuing Fred is concerned leading him to lose her to Gunn.
7) Isolating himself because he feared the transpiration of the dreaded Father will kill the son prophecy.
8) Becoming isolated by the group by trying to save Conner and Angel by taking Conner away.
9) Throat slit, pillow stuffed down throat by close friend. Nuff said.
10) His relationship with Lilah.
11) Wesley’s father turning up showing us the root of Wesley’s insecurities and his utilitarian stance.

Wes, definitely one of my fave characters.

[Allan]

Agreed!

[Bre]

As much as scruffy manly Wesley is kick-ass, I'm in love with geeky Wes in season one. Parting Gifts is one of my favorite episodes, just because of Wesley's clumsiness. But his character does develop outstandingly ... and he's a great creation.

[Allan]

I prefer the kick-ass Wes myself, but agree that his development was awesome. That's what really made the character, IMO.

[Loz]

batmite79 said:

His relationship with Fred was beautiful, and his "acceptance" and torn feelings in relation to Illyria, were great.

Really? You think it was beautiful? I adore Wesley and i like Fred but i don't think they should have ever been a couple. They have a very high ick factor. That scene at the start of A hole in the world with the, 'Are you trying to turn me on?' makes me shudder. And not in the good way.
To me Wesley seems to have this freaky idealized image of what Fred is and represents. And what i find really creepy about them is perfectly shown in AHITW as well. Fred asks, "Would you have loved me?" Wesley says that he's loved her since he's known her then adds "I think maybe even before." That is like saying. 'I don't actually love you, you just come close to an image i have in my head.' Who wants that
I also don't like Wes and Fred because they only hooked them up the week before she died so that losing her would be that much worse for him. They make Wes out to be some tragic martyr who has to watch his sweetie dying, and he's being noble and supportive as his heart breaks. And i just hate it.

You want a good match with Wes watch him with Lilah. They were on even ground with each other. They knew each other. Whether they liked it or not they were right for each other. I honestly think that was love.

Ok rant over

[Beck]

I love Wes. And I have to agree with Loz here, I hated Fred and Wes hooking up. Talk about sap sap sap and trying to milk the tears. I cringed all the way through AHITW and have only been able to watch it again once, it pains me so bad

[Glenn]

I too didnt like that they threw Fred and Wes together right before she died. But you know what Joss is like, he likes to give us something seemingly good and then gut us with something tragic. I was wincing during the whole dying scene. I think death has more of an impact onscreen when it is like "boom" dead. Though my heart breaks in NFA when Wes gives in to temptation and has Illyria turn ino Fred though that is probably because oneof my all time top characters is dying.

[Deleted]

I actually liked the sap that Fred and Wesley was at times. They were the good type of Sap if you get what I mean. They were sweet, but not cheesy romantic. And then when Wesley died and Illyria turned into Fred to comfort him, that broke my heart. The moments before Fred turned into Illyria had the biggest angst factor of the season in my opinion.

[Kana]

Although technically it wasn't a romance, but I preferred Wes/Illyria. The mutual loss and turmoil spawned from their respective worlds having been destroyed. Wes and Lilah were electric, although ill fated, which I liked. I preferred the love quadrangle between Gunn, Fred, Wes and Lilah which made for an interesting dynamic but I also enjoyed the angst of Wes almost having Fred then losing her to Illyria. I'd have to agree that if Wes and Fred actually did get together conventially, it would have been dull and like Glenn, I loved the scene between Illyria and Wes in NFA.

[shred]

Wesley is probably one of the most interesting character in Jossverse. I absolutely loved how he grew in character when he came into Angel. His growth felt a lot more natural than most of the character growth we saw on the shows.

And I have to agree with Allan though. I thought his relationship with Fred was beautiful too.

[Forsaken]

Hands down one of the best if not THE best characters in the Jossverse. So much development (and tragedy, I love it). Wesley's character also tells us alot about the Watchers. I think Giles was an unusual watcher but Wesley was the "headboy" if you will. As for him and Fred the idea of the relationship was better then the actual relationship. As somebody mentioned before I think Wesley had a glorified view of Fred, but then maybe that's love?

[Paul]

wes's character was awesome he had the most intresting developement in the show, fair enough angel had a lot of development over the centurys but for wes it all happened in a season or two, the only thing i dislike about wes was his almost fling with cordy in buffy, that was kinda creepy

[Beck]

That was uncomfortable to watch. How old was Wes supposed to be?

[shred]

vardamir said:

wes's character was awesome he had the most intresting developement in the show, fair enough angel had a lot of development over the centurys but for wes it all happened in a season or two, the only thing i dislike about wes was his almost fling with cordy in buffy, that was kinda creepy

I thought that was hilarious! Plus, it took me by surprise when they didn't work out. With the characters hooking up left, right and center, I thought for sure Cordy and Wes would be next.

[Allan]

Yeah, that was uncomfortable for me, too. I think it's that Wesley was meant to be a loser, and that's how it happened. Also, in Buffy, his character was played up as a novice Watcher, so maybe he wasn't "that" old.

Still, the Wes/Cordy age difference is nowhere near as bad as the Angel/Cordy one.

[Kana]

admin said:

That was uncomfortable to watch. How old was Wes supposed to be?

Intuitively, it wasn't that weird to watch for me at first as Alexis was in his early thirties and Charisma was in her late twenties(?) but if Alexis is playing his age? Early 30s vs 18 year old? Not that gross to me actually.

[Lizzie]

I saw Wes as quite young, only a few years older than Cordy - so it didn't seem too bad to me.

[shred]

I always thought that Wes was in his early 30s when he came to Sunnydale.

Even then, the age difference didn't matter much to me (I am a Bangel shipper after all ).