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Post by Glenn on Apr 15, 2007 9:20:29 GMT 10
But the aging thing applies to Spike as well. Plus i don't think there is enough evidence to say that Angel would lose his soul if he slept with Buffy again  Buffy was doing anything but softening blows in season 7 so why would she soften the blow on Angel She was telling teenage girls they could die, so i doubt telling Angel that there is no chance for them would be too hard. |
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Post by Nico on Apr 15, 2007 9:32:41 GMT 10
Thats exactly Why I dont think she saw any Future with angel, Doesnt mean she saw one with spike, I think what happend last time would be evidence enough though, would you take that chance?, Sleeping with someone on the off chance what happend last time may not happen again?
teenage girls she barely knew, they dont really rack up the same amount of points as the vampire she fell in love with and Killed.
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Post by Glenn on Apr 15, 2007 10:14:33 GMT 10
Angel has had sex with other people and not lost his soul. I think the fact he didn't know about the curse is the reason he lost his soul, now he knows what could happen i doubt he would ever reach true bliss again. Buffy will never have a proper relationship with a normal guy and the only non supernatural guys she knows right now is Xander, Giles and Andrew. No, no and no Buffy and normal guys dont fit very well and there are not many super powered hot good guys out there for her to choose from ;D |
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Post by Nico on Apr 15, 2007 10:32:54 GMT 10
You think a relationship with A vampire is better than a relationship with a normal guy?, If her not being the only slayer now effects her *potential* relationship with angel, whats to say her new found freedom doesnt mean she can have a relationship with a normal guy? (by normal I mean Riley Normal,)
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Post by Laura on Apr 15, 2007 11:14:54 GMT 10
Yeah, but Riley wasn't exactly normal either. Buffy and him had a hard relationship too. I think Buffy is doomed to have hard relationships, and whose to say that Bangel wouldn't work in the future?
And obviously Angel doesn't think Buffy will die, because of his response to the cookie dough speech.
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Post by Nico on Apr 15, 2007 21:18:32 GMT 10
Because he is a vampire who will never die, unless he accidently gets stabbed by one of the kids pencils, but hold on, him and buffy cant have kids, they cant go walking in the sun there relationship, would ruin there lives. Unless some sort of miraculous Cure was invented to cure "vampirism".
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Post by Laura on Apr 16, 2007 0:23:46 GMT 10
Well, if Angel ever got Shanshu it might have worked. Maybe that was why Angel was so optimistic.
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Post by Nico on Apr 16, 2007 3:26:28 GMT 10
It stills seems like they were just putting off the inevitable, or maybe its just me, every time I think Bangel, I just see that first love kind of thing,
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Post by Kana on Apr 16, 2007 6:42:52 GMT 10
We've all been through first love but is there such thing as a "first love thing". Do we kiss our first loves? If I saw my firt love I certainly wouldn't kiss her unless I had feelings for her. Although Beck said they were acting OOC, but cetainly with Angel it always come back to Buffy (I will give quotes if need be) and with buffy she always runs to Angel every season ( she is more emotionally available to Angel S5 than she is with Riley) well in Season 7 she kisses him so it makes me wonder. Are people like that with all their exes even if their first loves?
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Post by Nico on Apr 17, 2007 1:34:49 GMT 10
Well Personally I like to Throw things at my first love, but looking back at there relationship, Joyces funeral, angel came back, they kissed.. I dont know if the other times count, the episode of angel, buffy went to see him etc;, but they have a history of umm....Kissing.
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Post by Laura on Apr 18, 2007 7:44:17 GMT 10
I think Nico pretty much summed it up. I think it's Angel and Buffy's "thing" to kiss when they see each other, especially if they are in a time of need (for example Forever). As I said, in "Chosen" they were in the heat of the moment, especially after killing a hard villain and Angel helping her do so. |
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jeanvic
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Post by jeanvic on Apr 18, 2007 8:16:36 GMT 10
You know, I doubt it was just that. I think Angel and Buffy are and always will be in love. No matter how much time passes, no matter how far aprt from each other they go, the love is still there and they always find a way back to each other.
Why would Buffy care about no sunlight and no kids? Buffy has had 4 years since Angel left to discover new things and she has. She's hads a normal relationship, per se, with Riley and she had that farce with Spike. Plus, I think she values being with the man she loves more than sunlight and kids after she was ripped from heaven. Buffy has grown up since Season 3 and she has experienced and no matter how much you doubt it, she sees a future there.
And I think Joss sees a future there. A she has said before: "The love Buffy and Angel had transcends all love." Now, in my eyes that says a lot to me. And for all we know, Joss may have a big master plan for the stories. Perhaps he will have Buffy and Angel toegther after the shanshu or maybe he will give her kids another way, with Xander perhaps.
All I'm saying is, never say never. Just because you aren't too fond of B/A, don't rule it out. If it happens it happens and if it doesn't it doesn't but the fact still remains, Buffy still wants and thinks of it happening. That isn't a crime. It is called a woman being madly in love with the only man she has had a decent relationship with, before the Angelus saga.
My opinion: She wants it and she may very well get it.
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Post by Beck on Apr 18, 2007 9:32:22 GMT 10
I disagree they are still in love. Both characters had moved on. There was still love,but they weren;t in love anymore. I'm not ruling it out because I am not fond of the ship - it was a finished relationship, rehashed just to please Bangel fans. That pisses me off because its a cop out from Joss imo. After Angel shanshus? Angel signed it away and even if he didn't - it would be a very long time before he'd be able to Shanshu. Buffy would be long gone by that time. But thats another topic altogether.
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Post by jeanvic on Apr 18, 2007 9:38:21 GMT 10
He signed it away but did anyone, including Joss, ever say it was gone? No. Simple as. It isn't definitely gone until the stories end and Angel and Spike are still vampires.
And why would Buffy be long gone? I don't remember Wesley translating the exact date and time of day that it was going to happen. When Angel stops The Apocalypse, it said. I believe he is fighting that one right now.
And why was it just a cop out to please B/A fans? B/A was a vital part to the show, more vital than any other ship IMO so it just can't be left out, just like they couldn't do S5 of Angel without a C/A resolution. It just ain't happening.
And no offence but it sounds like people are just disregarding something they don't like because it may infringe on what they believe. She said it, she felt it, end of. No ifs and buts about it. What happens happens and unless it is clearly specified inside or outside the show that it was wrong then it stays as it is.
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Post by Beck on Apr 18, 2007 9:54:24 GMT 10
He signed it away at the end of the show which I loved. Proved he wasn't in it for the reward like he was starting to seem to be. But I am not discussing that here, there's a thread for that somewhere else. Buffy would be long gone as in Angel would not be close to redemption any time in the near future. When Angel stops the apocolypse... you're assuming the battle with the Senior Partners was the Apocolpyse? I don't think so, that was one battle against Angel and co - not the world.
It was a cop out because both Angel and Buffy were in love with other people. The kiss I have no issue with, not really, it was a hello. Its the bloody cookie dough speech that pisses me off because its so out of character for two characters who had moved on. Angel was there and all happy? Please. The woman he loved was in a coma and he'd just lost his son. He was deflated, as we saw at the start of season5 Ats. Yes it was a vital part of the show, and it had its resolution in Buffy season 3 as well as in I Will Remember You.
I'm not disagreeing because it infringes on anything I disbelieve. Don't generalise.
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Post by Nico on Apr 18, 2007 21:24:33 GMT 10
Weather it was a cop out, wanting to please angel/buffy fans, or Joss leaving his options open, I still dont see a future. Just because buffy has had 4 years since angel left to experience the things she couldnt with angel doesnt mean shes been there done that, whos to say she doesnt want children?, whos to say she doesnt want to go to the beach with her friends and boyfriend in the summer? just like she did with Riley. And dont give me the "Buffy getting kids another way routine" Xander gives buffy Kids but she ends up with angel?, talk about not putting all your eggs in the one basket, thats ridiculous, I really hope I misunderstood that line because thats crazytalk ! |
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Post by Kana on Apr 18, 2007 21:39:18 GMT 10
i'm not sure about still being in love but certainly from Angel's perspective he thinks they share a forever love. This is consistent with Angel saying Buffy's name in the perfect day fantasy.
I don't know what Buffy wants exactly, I'm not sure if she does. That was point. I like the idea that she belongs to neither of them but cares about both of them. Based upon what she says she cares about both of them and sees Angel as a part of her future. I don't think that means they will end up together though, not necessarily.
A little speculative but I think Bangel is or at least was important to Joss. The idea of something like this happening...
Buffy: Angel...
Angel: Yes, I'm human, Buffy I love you.
Buffy: I love you too. That's right, not Spike but you. It's always been you. What about Cordelia?
Angel: Cordelia who?
(Both laugh)
That doesn't sit right with me, but the idea that they will always be apart of each others lives seems consistent.
I never say never, even though I've said it twice, just now, but I don't want anything to be resolved in that manner. I like it left open.
I'm not sure if she's madly in love with Angel and I don't think any of Buffy's relationships were perfect nor completely pointless. All of them have had something she's been attracted to and all of them have had destructive parts based upon circumstances.
If she decides that's what she wants and if circumstances allow it. I hope we don't see it though.
This is what I don't know. Angel in season 5 claims they have a forever love but Buffy seems a little more ambiguous. I highly doubt she doesn't care about him though. I don't know about you but I don't keep kissing my ex every year. Or if something big happens in my life , I don't HAVE to see them. Maybe they are just friends but it seems a little more than that.
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I think that's an interesting way of looking at it. I don't know if they love each other or not. There is something there but I don't know what they'd call it.
Yes and no, imo. I think Joss wanted to please the Bangel fans but a finished relationship doesn't mean they don't still feel something for each other (believe me, I know).
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I'm not sure about a cop out. I'd have preferred it if Buffy simply left it at the cookie dough speech. I don't want Buffy to belong to Spike or Angel but to herself and the world.
We don't know when the prophecy will transpire.
True.
True, to an extent. He is fighting a battle at the moment but overall he is part of a huge battle, the prophecy isn't specific about the battle.
I don't think it's anymore vital but it's an important part of the show just like Spuffy, Ruffy etc.
Hopefully people don't think like this here do they?
This is point of the thread. Unless something is hugely inconsistent like say Buffy saying her death will activate the next slayer or the Ubervamps then I believe we can legitimize what we see, which is what I'm trying to do.
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I loved that too. I loved what it represented. I never assumed about the metaphysics though. Can someone sign away destiny?
I don't assume the Shanshu is a reward or about redemption. It will happen whether the vampire in question is on the side of good OR evil. It seems like something that is going to happen whether the vampire deserves it or not.
I'm not sure if JV meant Angel was fighting in general. This was one battle which is part of the war.
But people can love two different people in different ways.
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It was the other way round for me. I loved the speech.
I kind of wish they left in the full speech in Chosen when Angel talks about these things. Angel being glad to see Buffy after everything isn't so bad. He seemed a little optimistic about Nina, despite his losses.
Even if it should have been resolved then, it clearly wasn't. Angel was greived about Buffy dying. Buffy ran to see Angel after her ressurrection (why you would run to see an ex you no longer have feelings for I don't know) and Angel said Buffy's name in the fantasy and Buffy initiated the kiss in Chosen. Not resolved imo.
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Post by Laura on Apr 19, 2007 2:53:23 GMT 10
Maybe we're just reading into the cookie dough speech too much. Maybe Buffy just means her and Angel could be around each other again, not necessarily in a relationship (as Kana suggested). It seems doubtful that either of them could do that, but perhaps Buffy was just saying that when she is "ready" is when Angel and her can at least start to see each other regularly in their lives again.
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Post by jeanvic on Apr 19, 2007 3:40:32 GMT 10
Now, as much as I like you Kana, never say this ever again. Just because Angel said that does not mean he was thinking of her. It is only natural that he would say Buffy because he would relate it to the first time he lost his soul. I really don't understand the problem people have with the cookie dough speech. I agree it was ooc for Angel at that point but not so much Buffy. And why does it matter if Joss has some big B/A ending? I am a C/A fan but I wouldn't care that B/A ended up together. All I would care about is that characters I love are happy in the end and they get the things they want, not what the viewers want. My favourite ship was destroyed because the fans are so petty and they aren't happy unless they get it their way. In all honesty I thik this thread is getting a little silly. It was one speech. It says Buffy could see a future with Angel as he could her and that is completely natural because they will forever be a part of each other. End of. Seriously, what is the big problem people are finiding with this? |
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Post by Kana on Apr 19, 2007 7:20:35 GMT 10
What I'm saying is that it's consistent with his behaviour in Chosen and with his feelings in Season 5. If he didn't say that it was a forever love and imply that he wanted something to happen in Chosen, one could say it was a one off reaction but it seems consistent with his behaviour.
I'm kind of ok with it all I guess, because I don't really have a fave ship. I like how it all played out.
I was wondering how she felt about Spike at the time. I wouldn't see a future with my ex if I loved someone else but that's just me, but I think the point is that she may have seelings for both of them but she needs to sort out who she is first but it doesn't rule either of them out.
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