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Post by Nico on Dec 27, 2006 19:18:37 GMT 10
(I'm not sure if this has been asked before) I read some posts about the episode Helpless and it made me wonder.. she annoys me in Helpless because she constantly used to say that she wants a normal life and that her powers are nothing but trouble, but when she does in fact start to become normal she gets all whiny or should i say overly whiny I agree in Helpless she does get overly whiny and it didn't make sense that she would react like that, but its still a decent episode Sure Buffy whined in Helpless, but all of a sudden to lose those powers, it would be tough. So what do you all think? did she have the right to whine? did it make sense? was she overly whining? I personally think it made sense, We whine about stuff we have we wish we didnt all the time, You dont know what you Have Until its gone, Before that she took her powers for Granted EDIT- Hopefully made it more understandable, and added the quotes. |
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Post by Beck on Dec 28, 2006 20:25:14 GMT 10
Its understandable - she was scared. She wanted a normal life but I think by that stage she had actually accepted her duties as slayer, and seh seemed to have fun with it at times. And she KNOWS what goes bump in the night, to suddenly be unable to defend herself from it and yet know its there would be frightening. She didn't have someone to protect her the way the others had her, except Angel - and she was worried he liked her as the slayer more than he did her as herself (more trust there  ) But the main problem was - she didn't understand what was happening to her. We all get scared and upset when we're really sick and no one can tell us why. |
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Post by Kana on Dec 29, 2006 8:40:11 GMT 10
I agree with Beck. Buffy, I believe is ambivalent about being the slayer. On one hand it's kind of a curse and she wishes she could be 'normal' and have a 'normal life' on the flip side she seen too much as the Slayer to walk away from and just be helpless where she cannot protect the people she cared about.
Also as she has grown in the role she sees it as part of her identity and is part of what gives her life meaning
Kendra: You talk about slaying like it's a job. It's not. It's who you
are.
Buffy: Did you get that from your handbook?
Kendra: From you.
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Post by Glenn on Dec 29, 2006 14:30:46 GMT 10
Wow i posted that long ago lol
I still skip that episode because of how she annoys me but i am on season 3 at the moment and will give it another go.
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Post by Shaun on Dec 29, 2006 19:54:21 GMT 10
Buffy whines a lot in general  I don't think she would have been as upset about it if she had been given a reason for it, but she also showed a reluctance to leave Sunnydale and her slayer duties when her mother and Giles suggested she left for college somewhere else and left Faith slaying. |
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Post by Beck on Dec 29, 2006 20:01:22 GMT 10
Yeah she did so her behaviour in Helpless is consistant. Makes sense. She has her inferiority superiority complex Holden talks about in season 7  |
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Post by buffymanic on Dec 30, 2006 0:09:55 GMT 10
Well as you've pointed out it does make sense but I still think it was over the top. you'd think buffy would be able to see the upside even just a little
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Post by Allan on Dec 31, 2006 21:49:25 GMT 10
Buffy was slightly younger than she was in latter episodes (obviously), so I think you need to look at it that way, too.
She was less mature (not that she ever stopped whining), and relied on her powers more than she was latter in the series.
And let's not forget that not only does she know what goes bump in the night, she's pissed a lot of them off. They know her, they know her friends and family, and like Angelus proved, they will go after them.
I think the whining was founded.
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Post by shred on Jan 3, 2007 16:12:32 GMT 10
I think it was understandable. Though I wouldn't say she was whining. After everything that she has seen in the past 2 years or so, it's understandable for her to want to have a powers back. She has friends to protect, a family to protect, a town and even the world to protect. And to suddenly have that powers gone, she gets scared. How is she going to protect her friends and family when it used to be her job to do so? It's kinda like a cop forgetting to bring his gun and then finding himself in the middle of a bank robbery.  |
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Post by Laura on Mar 20, 2007 7:45:20 GMT 10
I believed it was understandable too. She hadn't wanted to be a Slayer in the first season, but I believe it grew on her. She accepted it as part of her life, and when it was taken away from her by someone she trusted most- that is definitely whine worthy.
Haven't you ever recieved something you didn't want, then it actually grew on you? Plus, it was a betrayal by Giles, and it put her life on the line. She was chosen to be the Slayer, so why should there be a test where she lost this ability?
I never really agreed with this "test."
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Post by Allan on Mar 20, 2007 21:34:14 GMT 10
She was chosen to be the Slayer, so why should there be a test where she lost this ability? I never really agreed with this "test." It's all about training her. Yes, she was "chosen", but as we've seen, that's not much without being trained. The entire purpose of the test was to teach her to deal with problems, and not to simply rely on her Slayer abilities. |
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Post by Lizzie on Mar 20, 2007 21:43:18 GMT 10
Hey, I watched this episode yesterday!
I think Buffy was justified. Giles tricked her, he injected her with something which took away her powers without her knowing.
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Post by Laura on Mar 21, 2007 7:47:03 GMT 10
She was chosen to be the Slayer, so why should there be a test where she lost this ability? I never really agreed with this "test." It's all about training her. Yes, she was "chosen", but as we've seen, that's not much without being trained. The entire purpose of the test was to teach her to deal with problems, and not to simply rely on her Slayer abilities. Yes, true, true. However, when will she not have her Slayer abilities? These powers will probably never be taken away, so why risk her life on a test which may prove to be pointless? |
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Post by Allan on Mar 21, 2007 20:55:35 GMT 10
No, not at all.
First of all, a demon, a witch, whatever, may be able to take them away. If Watchers can do it, it's reasonable to figure that others can, too.
Secondly, and more important, Buffy learning how to get by without her powers teaches her to use her wits, rather than running into battle half cocked, assuming that she can get by on her powers alone.
The test is anything but pointless.
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Post by Laura on Mar 22, 2007 7:36:29 GMT 10
Buffy had always used her wits, since the start of the series. I don't think she needed that test to prove she was resourceful. I am aware the Council would not know this, but Giles sure could.
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Post by Glenn on Mar 22, 2007 7:40:24 GMT 10
I think the test is an ok idea, just the format needs to change. It doesnt need to be kept secret from the Slayer and it shouldnt have to be done in such a hostile environment.
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Post by Laura on Mar 22, 2007 7:42:55 GMT 10
Yes, true, true. The test made it so if the Slayer failed, they basically died (at least, that's what happened in Buffy's case. It may have been different if the vampire hadn't escaped).
It was also odd how they kept it from the Slayer. Perhaps so they couldn't prepare themselves, and it was an actual now or never, bite the bullet kinda thing?
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Post by Allan on Mar 22, 2007 21:53:21 GMT 10
Yeah, as barbaric as it is, I think doing it without the Slayer's knowledge makes some sense. It's all about not relying on powers, thinking on your feet, etc. If the Slayer knew, and could prepare for it, it wouldn't have quite the same effect.
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Post by James on Mar 29, 2007 12:58:05 GMT 10
Yeh but its the slayers job to fight the demons, watchers job to do the planning. they before Giles all look like they think that slayer has to do what they say without question, and they teach her to survive. not having her powers and been locked in old house with crazy vampire a hard lesson to teach. If she died, then new slayer need training all over, less strong, less able, better for demons.
I not a fan of Helpless coz I dont like Buffy and she even more of a whinger in this.
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Post by Nico on Mar 29, 2007 23:05:42 GMT 10
It annoys me that people say "she whinges in this" Ofc she does, She may complain about her powers but guess what, shes a teenager, who didnt choose them, after she lost her powers she was still the Slayer, Vampires still thought she was the only one, and vampires still wanted her dead, and she shouldnt be whining about it? , seriously..
That should have never happend to her (the test) , if she died they would have said what?, "oh well, there will be another one called" it shows you how little respect the watchers council really had for buffy, they didnt see her as a person, they saw her as a statistic, one that could easily be replaced. She was only 18, 2 years of being the slayer, it wasnt enough time to drop her in there blindfolded....
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) But the main problem was - she didn't understand what was happening to her. We all get scared and upset when we're really sick and no one can tell us why.
I don't think she would have been as upset about it if she had been given a reason for it, but she also showed a reluctance to leave Sunnydale and her slayer duties when her mother and Giles suggested she left for college somewhere else and left Faith slaying.
