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Post by Kana on Apr 11, 2007 6:05:50 GMT 10
I was just wondering why Buffy would kiss Angel after everything she had been through with Spike. It makes me wonder when and if she loved Spike. She even gives Angel the impression that there could be a possibility of their being a future together
Quote:
BUFFY
You're not getting the brush off.
Quote:
BUFFY
(calls after him) Angel. (he turns to look at her) I do... sometimes think that far ahead.
It just strikes me as odd kissing your ex after everything that happened with Spike. Granted she wasn't technically with Spike but at the time she kissed Angel was she thinking about Spike romantically?
I heard that Joss said that Buffy loved Spike just at the last moment as he went all pillar of fire. I think Joss personally left as if she could have loved either or both so as to satsify Bangelists and Spuffy fans.
I personally get the feeling that she loves both of them, much in the same way Angel loves Buffy and Cordy.
What are your thoughts on the scene and what it means?
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Post by Laura on Apr 11, 2007 9:58:34 GMT 10
Hm, good question. I always assumed it was what you said about leaving all of Buffy's options open, to appease Bangel and Spuffy fans. However, it might have just been another heat of the moment type of things. Buffy just killed a hard villain, and Angel saved her life. Maybe it was just a hello- like how she explained to Spike  . |
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Post by Beck on Apr 11, 2007 10:20:55 GMT 10
*backs away from this thread*
I don't think its safe for me to answer this one, you all know my opinions on the ridiculousness of that scene to appease Bangel fans (and lets face it - thats what it was, it was OOC for both Buffy and Angel who were BOTH in love with other people)
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Post by Nico on Apr 13, 2007 8:49:23 GMT 10
I think it was an old times sake kind of thing, She had just killed Caleb, who was such a bane to her, blood rushing around her body, shes an adult now, I dont think there was anything in it.
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Post by Allan on Apr 13, 2007 22:20:10 GMT 10
From a character perspective, I'm chalking it up to a heat of the moment mistake.
From the show's perspective, it was there to appease Bangel fans, and bring a bit of closure to the show for them. Which is ridiculous, considering how far Buffy's moved forward since him.
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Post by Kana on Apr 14, 2007 2:29:06 GMT 10
It's a weird one really. I definitely agree with the Bangel Spuffy satifaction factor as I've said yet, Buffy talking about a possible future with Angel is the thing that irks me. It didn't need to be said, certainly if she didn't mean it. I doubt she would pity Angel, in any respect the cookie dough speech should suffice. A hug would do but instigating a kiss seems a little weird to do.
Generally, I'm not sure about kisses being a mistake, especially with a guy you claim to have loved more than any she will ever love. That's why I asked if she was in love with Spike at the time because I wouldn't kiss my ex in any heat of the moment if unless I still had feelings for her, especially if I loved someone else. It seems a little strange. Angel my fave character but I kind of felt for Spike really. After everything they had been though she still gives Angel (who she knows it can't work with) an glimmer of hope.
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Post by Nico on Apr 14, 2007 6:22:09 GMT 10
The thing with Bangel is it wasnt just an Ex situation, they would have stayed together, but they couldnt, there was no way, The only explanation I can think of, that makes sense is pleasing the Bangel Fans.
Lets face it, Just killed a major obstacle, Going into the Battle of her life, not sure if she will make it, Blood rushing to her head, Feeling victorius, First person she sees is the guy who saved her, the guy she has loved since she was 16, Buffy wasnt in a relationship, and wasnt planning to be for a while, her head was on work, being the slayer, saving the world, I guess she never seen the harm on kissing him, "For old times sake".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2007 7:05:51 GMT 10
I think it was simply a heat of the moment thing. Buffy's comment covers it in my view, it was a hello. Buffy and Angel were always a very passionate couple, even though they weren't together at the time, their interaction always has and always will be intense and heated. It's no surprise that Buffy's first reaction was to simply kiss him.
I'm not saying it's right, no no no, she'd basically lead Spike on and then went and kissed Angel. I'm just saying that I can understand why Buffy did it.
By the way, I love your set Nico!
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Post by Kana on Apr 14, 2007 7:26:28 GMT 10
I'm not sure. I guess perhaps I'm projecting somewhat. Gving Angel a little hint of the future then saying to Spike it was just a hello? Something doesn't sit right with me. It sort of implies that Buffy has some residual feelings for him, I'm not sure. Intensity burns out but if it doesn't then something is still there.
It's interesting SMG said that she saw Buffy and Angel having a 'true love' sort of deal but she also said she most likely had a deeper connection with Spike. Not a bad interpretation actually.
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Post by Nico on Apr 15, 2007 3:28:30 GMT 10
I dont think She was really thinking about the future, It took that silly cookie dough speech before she mentioned it, and that was with a lil bit of prodding from angel. Then Again I think that Future bit was in regards to not having a relationship with Spike.
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Post by Laura on Apr 15, 2007 5:42:38 GMT 10
I think that because Angel and Buffy were each other's first love, there will always be something between them. Imo that is why Buffy gave Angel the cookie dough speech, because although the odds are against them, they both wish that there was some way they could be happily together. I think Buffy is implying that if there was ever a way they could actually be together, then they would be.
I don't think it was bad she said, not even because of Spike. Buffy and Spike were not dating, and I can't ever see them ever dating, because of what they had been through. They had a deep connection, but not of connection of love imo.
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Post by Nico on Apr 15, 2007 7:29:13 GMT 10
I always thought her speech was implying that she doesnt neccesarily want to be with him, Though i guess thats arguebly the same thing,
In the end it was Spike she went home to, it was spike she spent the Night With. I still think it was a heat of the moment thing, blood rushing to her head.
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Post by Laura on Apr 15, 2007 7:39:48 GMT 10
Well, I think she was implying that when she is "done" or ready, that maybe her and Angel could be together, if they were in the same place and if it could work.
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Post by Nico on Apr 15, 2007 7:51:51 GMT 10
Do you think she would imply something like that though?, I thought she was just trying to cover her back a little, with the end of the speech, Im not sure they could ever work, doesnt angel still lose his soul when he experiences true love?, (I dont watch angel so im not sure what changed), Seems strange she would suggest something like that.
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Post by Laura on Apr 15, 2007 8:05:27 GMT 10
Do you think she would imply something like that though?, I thought she was just trying to cover her back a little, with the end of the speech, Im not sure they could ever work, doesnt angel still lose his soul when he experiences true love?, (I dont watch angel so im not sure what changed), Seems strange she would suggest something like that. Yeah, he still would lose his soul. Of course, there is question on whether or not he would if he continued worrying about it . Anyway, I don't know if she was trying to cover her back, I just always assumed it was just her wistful thinking. I thought she was hoping that someday Angel and her could re-kindle their own relationship on a more adult level. |
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Post by Kana on Apr 15, 2007 8:44:08 GMT 10
Do you think she would imply something like that though?, I thought she was just trying to cover her back a little, with the end of the speech, Im not sure they could ever work, doesnt angel still lose his soul when he experiences true love?, (I dont watch angel so im not sure what changed), Seems strange she would suggest something like that. That's what gets me. It doesn't work with them. I think Buffy should have been more emphatic about that. I like Angel (fave character) but dude, let it go. |
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Post by Nico on Apr 15, 2007 8:45:46 GMT 10
It seems like a bit dillusional for Buffy to see a future with Angel, she was told many times theres no future there, the curse on his soul would just be to much of a problem, and not a chance you would want to take.
I'm afraid of getting a little off topic but I guess it all relates to the speech after the kiss, Or maybe, its because she wasnt sure if she would survive, I remember her sending angel away, incase she loses the fight, he was the second line, maybe she didnt want to leave anything unresolved, seems like false hope to me?.
Edit: Yeah Kana, It seems they have both moved on, unless some miraculous "cure" is discoverd to stop angel losing his soul, And even at that would they risk it failing?,
Lets face it, Buffy has done that to angel before, I definetly think she was giving him false hope.
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Post by Laura on Apr 15, 2007 8:50:20 GMT 10
Very good point, Nico. I never imagined it could have been because she was afraid of death. She very well could have been just trying to appease Angel, or try to "end on a good note." That's pretty bad if she did that, though, since it would be false hope.
I would say that Buffy saw the relationship possible because she knew that she wouldn't be the only Slayer, but she didn't think of the plan to make all the Potentials Slayers until she talked to the First next, so that couldn't be it either.
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Post by Glenn on Apr 15, 2007 9:06:46 GMT 10
I took it as Buffy simply saying that she is not going to predict her life and live to a set plan. Anything and everything can happen in her world and that any set of circumstances can occur that could lead her back to Angel just as they may not lead her anywhere near him. As far as the kiss goes, it was pure passion  |
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Post by Nico on Apr 15, 2007 9:09:09 GMT 10
but Buffys Slayer'ness wasnt the only thing stopping the relationship working, it was the fact angel would never age, and would return to being a soul-less vampire if they Slept together.
I know if I was going into the fight of my life, and could possibly die, and expected that I may die I would want to leave on a good note.
It seems like she had no reason at all to think she could make things work with Angel, Or atleast none that I can think of at the moment,
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