Jonathan Joining the Scoobies

[shred]

Split from: Recurring+Characters

vardamir said:

jonathon was brilliant, i would of much preffered andrew getting killed and jonathon joining the scoobies

This quote from Paul made me wonder how things would have changed if Andrew died and Jonathan joined the Scoobies. Would you rather have Andrew or Jonathan in the Scoobies?

It would have seem more appropriate for Jonathan to be in the Scoobies as he has been in the show since the beginning.

Any thoughts?

[Allan]

On one hand, yeah, Jonathan would have been more appropriate. And he's not as annoying as Andrew. But that is exactly why I thought Andrew worked so well in with them. His complete geekiness, nerdiness and annoyingness was a lot stronger than Jonathan's, which really worked when we needed to see someone annoy the hell out of them.

And much as I do like Jonathan, I don't think his character would have been able to supply the same laughs.

[Nico]

Andrew was way better than Jonathan in my opinion, Jonathan was probably a better overall person, morally, but Andrew was much more fun to watch, and the fact he didn't fit in with the Scoobies at all was what made it funny.

[Dana]

I enjoyed Andrew becoming a part of the scoobies. All his little quirks and childish actions really did bring out a lot of fun events throughout the season and it brought back a part of the old Xander from the high school days which I enjoyed as well.

But As fun as that was, I would have preferred it if Jonathan had made it through the season instead. His character has always been a favorite of mine of the ones from the background, the episode that revolved around him in season 4 (Superstar) was very entertaining and also, the boy doesn't hurt my eyes He has always been there in the background, stepping out from time to time, the most noticable moments in the early seasons was him, a riffle and Buffy in the clock tower in "Earshot" and when he presents Buffy with her gift for her work as "class protector" in "the prom". He then showed up again in "Superstar" and then disappeared for quite some time. He was a big part of why I enjoyed the Trio, because to me his character is very interesting and even if he can act evil, deep down he isn't - he's really good and he can stand up when need be and unlike both Warren and Andrew he did realize what they had done when Warren killed Katrina (not saying that what happened next around that even was one of the best sides of him I have enjoyed!) and he also thought that he and Andrew did deserve to be in jail for what they had done. He was even the driving force between himself and Andrew about the fact of going back to jail after "dealing" with Darth Rosenberg. The fact that he decided to run away in the end only shows the human side of him and pretty much reflects most people - you don't want to face the music in the end, all you want is to run away and hide because it's in your nature and it happens to the best of us.

After this long talk, I think that his character would have gotten a much better ending had he not been killed by Andrew. He would have finally found what he was supposed to do in his life (at least that's what I think..) and I think he would have been a great fighter along the scoobies. I still think his geeky side would have come out around Xander and it could have given them some great moments and Jonathan wasn't stupid, he understood about Buffy and Riley in "Superstar" and so I think that he would have gotten a long pretty great with the gang and become a part of it in a much better way than Andrew ever could have.

I did enjoy Andrew's time with the scoobies, and I love that he has gone on to become a watcher but if I would have had a choice, I think Jonathan should have been the one to live and let live.

[Allan]

dana said:

After this long talk, I think that his character would have gotten a much better ending had he not been killed by Andrew.

While not a happy ending, I thought his end worked. It was a pointless death, and it was almost poetic for a character who rilly never achieved much. He was lead by his friends and didn't have much of a backbone. He knew he wasn't doing the right thing, didn't have the courage to stop, and it got him killed for nothing.

[Nico]

Both andrew and Jonathan left Buffy, Dawn and Xander for dead by running away, who really cares if Jonathan admitted he and Andrew should be in Jail, it is pretty clear from the fact he ran away, that he was only saying that because he had no other option.

Like Allan said Jonathan knew he was doing wrong but didnt do anything about it, instead he whined and done it anyway, that sounds like someone clinging to the hope they can grab some sympathy.

Needless to say, I dont dislike Jonathans character, but I think he had more than enough time on the show, Andrew was always the Third member of the Trio, I thought it was great to see him get some screen time. The fact that he was completely Useless to the Scoobies (Except for the tears) added alot more to it. and I just loved Storyteller.

[Forsaken]

I really enjoyed Jonathan's character thru the whole series and wish that he'd gotten a better end. Or better still had lived (since that was a reacurring joke of sorts). I also didn't like Andrew that much to begin with but I will admit that after the second time I watched season 7 I felt more for his character. However I really don't think he could or should be a watcher. For that matter he's the only one who's ever claimed he's a watcher so he's probably not one.

[Allan]

My thought of Andrew as a Watcher is that he is one - or at least in training. Not because he's particularly capable, but with the Council destroyed, they needed to get them where they could.

[Beck]

True and what else could Andrew do to help? In the end he did fight against the first - that does win him some brownie points. Before that he was very easily led by what others were doing. First he copied his brother in summoning (monkeys was it for Andrew? I know his brother was the hellhounds) then he copied whatever Warren wanted. He was insecure and wanted acceptance, the same as Jonathon. The morals of what they did weighed heavier on Jonathon because he was less likely to just follow, and he was still grateful for what Buffy had done for him previously. Andrew deserved his second chance and training him to be a watcher was a good idea imo. It gives him the feeling of belonging he wanted, and makes him less likely to ever be persuaded to the "dark side" again, as it were.

Now should it have been Jonathon a scoobie? No. They'd known him all through high school and never hung out with him, he was intimidated by them and I don't think would have worked well with them the way Andrew did. Plus the group would have been more sympathetic to Jonathon.