Spuffy

[Beck]

Well there is a thread to discuss the pros and cons of Bangel, so here's the Spuffy thread. So who likes them together, who hates them together, what are the good and bad arguments for and against them?

[Bre]

I love them together, whether a couple or not. They have awesome chemistry that you can see miles away. I think they bring out the best acting in eachother as well. But yeah they're relationship is hot and interesting. Almost opposite of Bangel.

[buffymanic]

Ha funny Bre! I don't hate them together anymore but I do think they're a lot better as close friends rather than the very damaged relationship.

I'd have to agree with Bre that Sarah and James bring out the best acting in each other and they definately have tangible chemistry.

[Beck]

I loved Spuffy season 6 for the chemistry and how interesting and hot the relationship was, but season 7 it was something else entirely. I believe it was love, and I think that had Spike not sacrificed himself in Chosen they would have made a go of things together. They were very close in season 7 and had some of the most touching moments in the show. His speech in Touched gets me every time. There were definately stronger feelings than just a close friendship there. I like how Buffy gets a bit miffed that Spike doesn't get jealous over her date with Wood

[Deleted]

I loved, loved, loved Spuffy til they tried to flush it down the toilet in Angel's "The Girl in Question". Then I got mad and downgraded it to behind my Grissom/Sara shippingness. I couldn't believe that they had Spike ride around on a motorcycle following Buffy and NOT trying to get in contact with her! I mean, it doesn't seem very Spike to not approach Buffy if he thought something was wrong.

[Kana]

Pros

I think the honesty and chemistry is almost unrivaled and I believe they knew each other better than Buffy and Angel ever did. I liked how the night he spent in Buffy's arms was the best night of his life. The almosts and could have beens in Season 7 made my heart melt and his loyalty to Buffy was unequalled. Also he got a soul for her which is unprecedented in vampire history. Interestingly his love for her turned him into a hero whereas Angel's love for her turned him back into a villain.

Cons

A history of violence. The line between soulless Spike and soulled Spike seemed a little blurred at times which made the attempted rape more chilling in a way. A lot of Spike and buffy's relationship was to do with Buffy escaping her emotional problems and using Spike 'to feel' and not respecting him because he doesn't have a soul. For a while Buffy could not reconcile herself with her behaviour and Spike's obsessive love from Season 5 to Season 6's AR bordered on creepy and disturbing.

[Glenn]

I did like what they had together in season 7 but it was so boring. Was worse than Bangel

I much preferred the viewing of season 6 as it was full of passion which makes for much better TV.

[Beck]

Worse than Bangel huh? I have to 100% disagree with you there

I also disagree with the line between soulled Spike and unsoulled Spike being blurred. He very very clearly is a different vampire in how he feels. As Angel and Buffy and Giles have ALL said at various times, the soulless Vampire gets its personality from the person it took over. It makes sense Spike's actual personality wouldn't change, only his conscience and his feelings to a degree. Angel is the one that makes no sense in that, the reason he is so different is because Angelus had no humanity, and Angel's personality is predominantly because he lets his guilt over what he did when evil define who he is for a long time. He had too much guilt and couldn't cope, his personality changed from how it originally was because of all those years alone. Spike on the other hand had Buffy, to help him see the difference so that what he had done didn't cause him enough guilt to change his personality an become all broody.

[jeanvic]

I hated Spuffy. No offence to all those who like it (cos i respect that) but I didn't like what it stood for and what it portrayed. You can throw as many chemistrys and what have yous at it but it was what it was: two people using the other for selfish means. Only in Season 7 did it go beyond that but then it was nothing more than a friendship, IMO.

As far as chemistry goes, I saw none quite honestly. I saw more chemistry between B/A in season 2 in episodes like Surprise and Innocence. I don't think JM/SMG were the epitome of onscreen chemistry because I think that title would go to Angel/Cordelia, imo. That's not because I'm a shipper but because I think their contrasting styles, glances, conversations all complimented each other perfectly. A close second would most probably be A/S. Thye were great together despite the obvious backtracking. Let's admit it, DB could have chemistry with a rock.

As far as excitement goes I would say that it is way up there but I think it was more exciting to see other ships that had obvious problems. B/A in Season 3 was exciting because you always wondered whether they would ever do it again and Angelus could come back.

As far as niceness of the ship goes (closeness, connection etc) it was lacking until the last few eps of Season 7, IMO. I thought the niceness awards would have to go to B/A, C/A or W/F.

Well that is my thoughts on things. I hope I haven't upset or offended anyone because it was never my intention, but I do know my posts can seem a bit "grrr" sometimes.

[Beck]

No grr this time But i will however disagree on almost all points

I hated Spuffy. No offence to all those who like it (cos i respect that) but I didn't like what it stood for and what it portrayed. You can throw as many chemistrys and what have yous at it but it was what it was: two people using the other for selfish means. Only in Season 7 did it go beyond that but then it was nothing more than a friendship, IMO.

I don't think Spike was using her for selfish means, anymore than any vampire in love uses their partner He did love her, but he had a misguided view on what loving someone meant. Buffy did use him yes. The chemistry was brilliant imo. And in season 7 I think it was much more than a friendship, but it was based in friendship (much like Cangel )

As far as chemistry goes, I saw none quite honestly. I saw more chemistry between B/A in season 2 in episodes like Surprise and Innocence. I don't think JM/SMG were the epitome of onscreen chemistry because I think that title would go to Angel/Cordelia, imo. That's not because I'm a shipper but because I think their contrasting styles, glances, conversations all complimented each other perfectly. A close second would most probably be A/S. Thye were great together despite the obvious backtracking. Let's admit it, DB could have chemistry with a rock.

Beg to differ. The only person I found DB to have great chemistry with was Julie Benz, and only as Angelus not as Angel. That a personal opinion though.

B/A in Season 3 was exciting because you always wondered whether they would ever do it again and Angelus could come back.

Again I disagree. Bangel bored me senseless in season 3, I spend the whole time apart from the Prom, wanting Angel to hurry up and leave As for excitement in other ships, I honestly think only Wilah rivals Spuffy for that. The others had great moments, and I love some other ships ups and downs, but I don't think they had more excitement.

As far as niceness of the ship goes (closeness, connection etc) it was lacking until the last few eps of Season 7, IMO. I thought the niceness awards would have to go to B/A, C/A or W/F.

Bangel weren't 'nice' and I don't think they connected all that well, however that belongs in the Bangel v Spuffy debate and if you can find that thread, feel free to continue that there I think nicer relationships were Willow/Oz or Fred/Gunn. But Spuffy had great connection and closeness all through season 7 imo.

edit - and I just want to conclude this post with anything I have commented on that is not related to Spuffy can be addressed in the apporpriate thread, unless its a direct comparison to Spuffy, otherwise its gettint OT.

[jeanvic]

Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this topic. Ain't it strange how we all watch the same show yet see different things? That's what makes the show great.

[Lizzie]

You can say that about most shows, though.

I love Spuffy! Their relationship was so complex, and they've got great chemistry, way better than Buffy and Angel ever did. I definitely think Buffy loved Spike. They moved from hate into love. (1/15)

[spikeluvva]

The season six Spuffy relationship was definately better than the Season seven relationship. Not the season seven relationship wasn't good, but I have to agree that it was just a little bit boring. I think that they should have gotten together and made a go of it just to see if they really could have a good, solid realtionship like she and Angel had, but Joss isn't one for happy endings as you all know.

[Beck]

See I never found season 7 Spuffy boring :dunno: I thought it was a very nice and loving friendship that we saw growing.

[Allan]

I found it far from boring. As Beck said, it was a nice and loving friendship, and on top of that, it's something different than what had been explored on the show previously.

[Kana]

I must admit, I enjoyed watching Season 5 and 6 in terms of Spuffy moments rather than 7 but I can't understand why. For once it's not a logic thing for me, something just didn't sit right with me.

The only thing I can articulate is I didn't like the line "I did this for you. The soul, the changes—it's what you wanted". I don't know why, I just felt like saying "Spike, what do you want?" that said, overall, I liked how Spuffy defied the conventions but the Lilah and Wes relationship did it more for me.

[Allan]

I think in many ways, most Jossverse relationships defied conventions. That said, when it comes to some of the latter ones, like Spuffy, and Wesley/Lilah (Weslah? ), they started defying the Jossverse conventions. It kept things interesting.

[Beck]

Wilah

May I ask what is a "conventional" relationship nowadays?

[Allan]

Well, that is a good point, Beck. There's probably no such thing. But the majority of Joss relationships manage tp diverge into unexpected ways.

[Nico]

Repetitive is boring to me, Bangel was repetitive, watching The Spuffy relationship change, seeing what it ended up as, that kept me hooked, with SPuffy, you never knew what was going to happen next, with bangel, you dreaded what was going to happen next (or atleast i did).