Crossovers

[Beck]

OK I posted this exact post on BT as well but I'd rather discuss it here as I am sure my post will be considered flaming by a certain member on there Which we all know I would never do!! Ever! Its a long post, and I want to know what you all think of the Crossover episodes.

I actually hated the majority of the crossovers.

Everytime Angel crossed over to BtVS - I hated him. He lost all of his character development and the storyline on "Angel" just vanished. In Pangs they had him stalking Buffy, following her around to make sure she was safe. Made no sense - just made him look like a twat. There was no reason for him to be there, the storyline went along fine without him. He was only there to set up I will Remember You - which was a completely out of place and ridiculous episode for "Angel". I am not saying I hate it - I don't. But it made no sense to the "Angel" storyline - in fact it completely undermined the Shanshu Prophecy which was to be important over all five series. Not to mention it had Buffy out of character.

Then there was Sanctuary - again I didn't like Buffy crossing over. After the brilliance of Five by Five it just felt flat. I don't think Buffy needed to go to LA, or perhaps it could have been written better? And Angel turning up for 5 minutes in The Yoko Factor was purely to have the Riley/Buffy/Angel angle explored and wasn't necessary. And Angel just acted like a child.

Then we have my least favourite of all - Chosen. I wanted to scream at Joss for being so stupid as to have Angel turn up. What the hell was the point in having him there!! The amulet? He could have sent that - or the scoobies could have found it somewhere. And if they HAD to have him turn up why go with the Bangel sappy cookie dough crap? It was out of character for both Buffy and Angel and COMPLETELY ignored the "Angel" and "Buffy" storylines involving Cangel and Spuffy. Whether you hate Spuffy and Cangel or not they were important parts to those seasons and they were ignored. Angel's best friend, his love - Cordy, however you think of her - was in a frickin coma and he doesn't bat an eyelid about it. He's just given up his son - who cares? It was stupid and imo almost ruins a good finale. It is imo, the worse scene in any "Buffy" or "Angel" season. Yes. It is. I said that. Its out of character and basically just crap and badly written and lets face it, put there simply for Bangel fans.

Other crossovers I didn't mind so much, In the Dark was brilliant, as were the Faith crossovers (barring Sanctuary) Orpheus annoys me because Willow is out of character - on "Buffy" she is worried about using her magicks, but in Orpheus she goes up against Jasmine-Cordy without worrying about her magick at all. Not to mention having Fred making doe-eyes at Willow.

So yeah, crossovers. Generally not handled well.

[Glenn]

i agree that the majority of the crossovers were a waste of time five by five a notable exception

but i also think Andrews first appearance was also vital, by that time i think some of us had sunk into a false sense of security about Angel inc being embedded with wolfram & hart. Andrews speech however jolted us back to the fact that they were in the belly of the beast and the fact that none of the scoobies trusted them anymore the reason why they didnt show up in the angel finale

[Sammy]

What about the cross over where Buffy goes to LA and Angel becomes human, or is that Sanctuary? Am I getting confused again?

[buffymanic]

that would be 'I will Remember You'

[Bre]

Good episode. I just watched that the other day, and for the first time, I didn't cry. (Well okay.. maybe a tear)

[Mooshi]

I actually loved the crossovers. If you watched Buffy but not Angel, it explained some of the things that were going on in the other show. Also, if it wasn't for the crossovers, i would have never got into Angel.

[secret]

Some of the crossovers were good, and had the right kinda impact, like at the end of Angel Season 2 when the gang gets back to find a forlorn Willow on the doorstep... That was sad. But I guess the whole Buffy season 5 season ending mixing with the Angel season 2 ending doesn't go well together...

[Deleted]

I agree that many of the crossovers were poorly handled--with some notable exceptions. But when you take them out of the context of their shows and seasons and look at them as an individual episode, they're not so bad. For instance, I think that the storyline in IWRY is something that was begging to be explored in the Buffyverse but was inserted into the seasons rather poorly.

I am one of those people who agree that Angel should have been in "Chosen," but was not impressed with the cookie dough speech. It was sweet and touching and very Bangel, but you're right, Beck. It completely ignored the developments in the Cangel and Spuffy relationships.

I also liked Andrew's appearance in AtS season 5, but since Buffy had ended at that point I see it more as a guest starring role than a crossover.

[Lexie]

I agree about some of the crossovers, but definitly not all of them.

Out of everything you say (Beck) I just can't believe you think Buffy was out of character in IWRY. How so? It's not like it is during a time where either of them are having a relationship with anyone and it isn't that long after Angel left. You see in both shows at the time that neither of them are "over" the other so why would indulging in getting the one thing they always wanted be out of character?

I never had a problem with Sanctuary, either. Maybe that's simply because I absolutely love the end confrontation between Buffy and Angel. I cheered so much and when he put her in her place.

I can understand why The Yoko Factor would bother you, but you know that after their fight Angel wouldn't just sit on his ass and allow it to end like that. It's completely in his character to go after her and apologize (I still have serious issues with Buffy for not apologizing to him, too. Yeah, she was pissed and hurt, but what she said to Angel in Sanctuary was horrible) And we know from past episodes that Angel's the jealous type...okay maybe beating the crap out of Riley wasn't that mature, though he's obviously hurt to actually see the guy who replaced him.

Forever was simply Angel being there in her time of need and it was before the Angel/Cordy and Buffy/Spike storylines were introduced, so I don't see a problem there.

I do agree about Pangs, but unfortunately there had to be some set up for IWRY so it was needed.

I also mostly agree about Chosen. I didn't exactly have a problem with Angel being there, but...we all know I am a huge Buffy/Angel fan, but I found their interaction really weird. Everything they say...I don't know. I guess some of it was sweet, but the cookie dough speech was simply awful (Though I happen to love when Angel says: Do you have any idea who...do I have to use the cookie analogy?) It does ignore developments, I agree there. It also seem weird that Angel is fine with his best friend being in a coma and giving up his son, but he's probably just repressing. He went home after and had a long brooding session I bet.

Orpheus. I love the episode, but I agree about Willow's presence. It didn't make sense that she would use such strong magic at a time when she was still iffy about magic in general. And Fred making, as you say, doe-eyes was stupid. Especially since at the same time there is the whole Wes/Fred/Gunn love triangle.

There are no complaints about In the Dark or Five by Five, both are brillaint episodes. I would say that I love all the Faith episodes in Angel season 4, but they aren't really crossovers.

[Beck]

mateofangelus said:

Out of everything you say (Beck) I just can't believe you think Buffy was out of character in IWRY. How so? It's not like it is during a time where either of them are having a relationship with anyone and it isn't that long after Angel left. You see in both shows at the time that neither of them are "over" the other so why would indulging in getting the one thing they always wanted be out of character?

Thats not what I found out of character. Buffy to me just seemed off. I do actually love that episode, its one of the only Bangel centred episodes I loved. Until Angel ruined it all but thats a different matter.

Forever was simply Angel being there in her time of need and it was before the Angel/Cordy and Buffy/Spike storylines were introduced, so I don't see a problem there.

I don't object to Forever either.

[Nico]

I hated when Angel crossed over into Btvs, he was either stalking her, or brooding over her, or both!. I loved angel, I enjoyed the Bangel moments but when he crossed over to his own I was glad, his broodyness was iritating. I dont really watch angel so I mainly watched it when there was a crossover from btvs to angel, Because they usually referred to it and I didnt want to be left behind .
I love * I will remember you*, who wouldnt, its a great episode, very well written.

[buffymanic]

wow can't believe I havn't posted in here before.

I can't think of a single crossover that I didn't enjoy. Pangs was ok mediocore and I didn't like everybody conspireing against Buffy to keep Angels presence a secret but then again it provided an excellent look into what could have been with I will Remember You.

Personally I can't find much fault in any of the crossovers and I think each one played a very important role. The only point I would conceed is certain plot developments ignored in Chosen but I'm sure if Joss had 2hrs for that ep it'd have been a lot better

[Beck]

Apparently there was meant to be a scene in Chosen where Angel mentioned the Cordy thing to Buffy, but there wasnt enough time and Joss didnt want to confuse non Angel watchers... or something

[Paul]

i like all the crossovers, i even liked the fake buffy in "the girl in question" and andrew was funny as usual

[Beck]

Any more opinions on the crossovers? It wasn't discussed all that much so I've revived this as I think there should be some interesting debate on this.

[Kana]

In The Dark was fanfreekin' tastic. Spike's speech at the beginning and IWRY was pure passion. I think it was because DB had a become a better actor so he and SMG were on fire.

I thought was ok episode but not for Angel. To me it was just a set up for IWRY.

5x5 was great as was Sanctuary. In fact all the Faith crossovers were great.

I still think Angel should have mentioned Cordy and Conner like he was originally going to. I would have liked to see Buffy's reaction too.

[Allan]

I think all the Faith crossovers were brilliant, as well. We got to see other aspects of her character, as well as her redemption, with the help that Angel povided her.

I wasn't a fan of Orpheus, though. Willow was crap in it, and IMO just there for the sake of having Willow, and completely ignoring her character in the process. The only thing I can think of there is that they didn't want to show too much baggage for non-Buffy viewers.

[shred]

Well, I blame the writers not Angel whenever he crossed over to Buffy. But as a Bangel fan, I'm not complaining. ;D

Generally, I'm a fan of crossovers. Though there are time where I felt like killing the writers, I kinda understand why Angel is not Angel when he is in Buffy. Viewers of Buffy might not have seen Angel and it would probably be confusing for them if they see a different Angel as to the Angel they known from Buffy.

Crossovers are a tricky thing.

I love I Will Remember You by the way. Which is pretty obvious. ;D

[Lexie]

shred said:

I kinda understand why Angel is not Angel when he is in Buffy. Viewers of Buffy might not have seen Angel and it would probably be confusing for them if they see a different Angel as to the Angel they known from Buffy.

I have to disagree here. I don't think character development should be ignored just because the fans might wonder why the characters are different. I think even if you don't watch Angel you should have enough common sense to know that Angel has probably changed since he's been away from Sunnydale.