Out of Character

[Beck]

I think all of the characters have them at times, so lets discuss them. What moments, quotes or actions do you think are out of character? And please dont' say Buffy season 6 - she was not out of character, she was gloomy

[Laura]

Just a few at the top of my head:

1) Pangs- Buffy was out of character this whole episode, since she was more focused on making Thanksgiving dinner than helping her friends. The dinner was important to her, but it was still out of character imo (we actually talked about this one, Beck).

2) Spike in "Beneath You". He was a jerk to Buffy, since Anya almost revealed he had a soul.

3) I thought almost everyone was out of character in "Empty Places," especially Dawn when she kicked Buffy out.

There were other times, but most of them are because of something that happened (for example, When She Was Bad since Buffy was traumatized, season 6 since she was "gloomy" , ect.)

[Glenn]

Yeah Buffy's pie obsession was weird. The explanation of "she's lonely" by Giles doesn't quite cut it

[Beck]

She was out of character that whole episode. I don't think Spike was in Beneath You - he was crazy lol. Giles was OOC almost all of season 7.

[Amber]

Yeah, I agree that Giles was out of character in much of season 7.

Also, both Fred and Willow were out of character in all of Orpheus...it bothered me, sooo much. Egad.

[Kana]

How were Fred and Willow out of character?

[Laura]

I think Fred was out of character since she seemed like she had a school girl crush on Willow...Fred's not even a lesbian, though. However, maybe she wasn't even asking Willow out, but Willow just took it that way and then awkwardly told Fred she was seeing someone .

[Beck]

Willow in season 7 Buffy struggled with using magicks because she was scared of her power, even up until the end she was worried and needed Kennedy there "in case" in Chosen. Then in Orpheus she takes on Jasmine-Cordy without a worry and is perfectly in control of her magicks. And Fred's crush on Willow was OOC for her.

[jeanvic]

OOC? Hmm, let me see.

I thought Buffy was way off in Season 7. Come on girl crack a smile and lighten up.

I thought everyone was off in Ats Season 5, except during YW for some reason. Spike stayed ooc in that ep but the others returned to normal. Huh, must be Cordy's influence.

Uh, the whole school in Graduation day part 2. I'm all for saving the world but the whole school fighting was cheesy, IMO.

I'll admit Buffy's actions in season 6 were mostly because of her gloominess but some of it was ooc. For instance, the constant secrets with her friends yet talking to Spike, and the hairdo she gets when she becomes invisible. That was way off.

Can't think of any more at the mo but I'm always one for finding faults in Btvs post season 3.

[Beck]

jeanvic said:

OOC? Hmm, let me see.

I thought Buffy was way off in Season 7. Come on girl crack a smile and lighten up.

I dont think that was OOC, she had been through a lot and had been made responsible for these girls lifes, girls that were being targetted by a villian much more powerful than herself. She was focused on being the leader and took it too far, but not OOC.

I thought everyone was off in Ats Season 5, except during YW for some reason. Spike stayed ooc in that ep but the others returned to normal. Huh, must be Cordy's influence.

Agreed, but this is in the Buffy section so lets leave this with Buffy characters

Uh, the whole school in Graduation day part 2. I'm all for saving the world but the whole school fighting was cheesy, IMO.

Hmm not something I've thought about before but I actually agree. I know they set it up that the school knew about these things in prom, but it was a little weird.

I'll admit Buffy's actions in season 6 were mostly because of her gloominess but some of it was ooc. For instance, the constant secrets with her friends yet talking to Spike, and the hairdo she gets when she becomes invisible. That was way off.

I disagree. Buffy's friends were the ones that brought her back from heaven - she didn't want them to know, and didnt feel comfortable around them because of it. I think her actions there were most certainly understandable. Even though her friends hadn't known, they had brought her back because they missed her and needed her, didn't let her rest and be done like she felt she was for a long time. She cut her hair because she felt dirty about what she was doing with Spike and he liked her hair so she hacked it off. Again, I understand that action. Spike she trusted because she knew he genuinely loved her, and she needed someone to turn to that hadn't brought her back. Spike may have done wrong by her with trying to bring out her darkness, but Buffy also found him comforting and he helped her to feel. We all do things we wouldn't usually do after bad trauma and take comfort in things we shouldn't - and her trauma was pretty bad. So not OOC at all, imo.

Angel and Buffy were both OOC in Chosen, but since I've talked about that numerous times I won't go into it again

[Kana]

bringonthenight said:

I think Fred was out of character since she seemed like she had a school girl crush on Willow...Fred's not even a lesbian, though. However, maybe she wasn't even asking Willow out, but Willow just took it that way and then awkwardly told Fred she was seeing someone .

I don't think she did have a crush on her as you said, they are both quite similar in a lot of ways and Fred was probably excited to have another geek around .

Willow in season 7 Buffy struggled with using magicks because she was scared of her power, even up until the end she was worried and needed Kennedy there "in case" in Chosen

Maybe I'd have to watch Season 7 again. Was the spell casting she did on Angel as powerful as the scythe spell? If not it can be legitimized I think and I don't think Fred had a crush on Willow, that was simply a misconstruction on Willow's part.

I dont think that was OOC, she had been through a lot and had been made responsible for these girls lifes, girls that were being targetted by a villian much more powerful than herself. She was focused on being the leader and took it too far, but not OOC.

Agreed, and also Buffy found it difficult to reconcile herself with her decisions which proves she's still 'Buffy'. It's kind of like she tried deliberately to vut herself off and we saw her do that in the last season although for different reasons.

Uh, the whole school in Graduation day part 2. I'm all for saving the world but the whole school fighting was cheesy, IMO.

I sort of know what you mean but it's not necessarily out of character as we didn't know the other students that well.

[Beck]

kana said:

I don't think she did have a crush on her as you said, they are both quite similar in a lot of ways and Fred was probably excited to have another geek around .

Mmmm well thats not what was shown. Fred didn't correct Willow when Willow mentioned having a girlfriend. It came across as a lot more than Fred simply being excited to have another geek around.

Maybe I'd have to watch Season 7 again. Was the spell casting she did on Angel as powerful as the scythe spell? If not it can be legitimized I think and I don't think Fred had a crush on Willow, that was simply a misconstruction on Willow's part.

I meant the magick fight with Jasmine-Cordy, not the resouling spell. And we'll have to disagree on the crush being misconstrued.

I think Riley getting married was OOC.

[Kana]

Mmmm well thats not what was shown. Fred didn't correct Willow when Willow mentioned having a girlfriend. It came across as a lot more than Fred simply being excited to have another geek around.

She seemed a little confused. I'd be if I was talking to a guy and they said they were seeing someone, I'd be like, ok and tat was the reaction Fred seemed to have. Fred has never shown any homosexual or bisexual tendancies. It's possible but there nothing there that's explicit enough. It could just be enthusiasm.

I meant the magick fight with Jasmine-Cordy, not the resouling spell. And we'll have to disagree on the crush being misconstrued.

Ah Well, like I said I'd have to watch Season 7 again. I'd say the Scythe spell was bigger though and maybe Willow was growing in confidence.

I think Riley getting married was OOC

"I'm never going to get over you Buffy, I just can't...hey how you doin'" lol

[Beck]

kana said:

She seemed a little confused. I'd be if I was talking to a guy and they said they were seeing someone, I'd be like, ok and tat was the reaction Fred seemed to have. Fred has never shown any homosexual or bisexual tendancies. It's possible but there nothing there that's explicit enough. It could just be enthusiasm.

No nothing explicit, but it was definitely hinted at and came across as Fred having a crush on Willow. And since Joss doesn't tend to throw in comments like that unless he wants it to look like that, (or at least be up to debate) then I am going with Fred did have a little crush. And its OOC because no, she has shown no signs of an interest in women before that. Its the impression I got, and what was strongly suggested. And Fred is the kind of girl who would have stuttered about that not being what she meant, especially if she was so excited about Willow being there just as another geek. And she looked knocked back imo, not confused

Ah Well, like I said I'd have to watch Season 7 again. I'd say the Scythe spell was bigger though and maybe Willow was growing in confidence.

She was scared of magicks still at that point, even smaller spells.

"I'm never going to get over you Buffy, I just can't...hey how you doin'" lol

And so soon, to someone he barely knew. Not in character for Riley at all imo

[Kana]

No nothing explicit, but it was definitely hinted at and came across as Fred having a crush on Willow. And since Joss doesn't tend to throw in comments like that unless he wants it to look like that, (or at least be up to debate) then I am going with Fred did have a little crush. And its OOC because no, she has shown no signs of an interest in women before that. Its the impression I got, and what was strongly suggested.

My rules for looking out what is OOC lack of preceeding evidence or certain variables which can be scrutinized in said situation.

Anyway, I don't think anything was hinted other than Willow's misconstruction. Why can't be explained as Fred's enthusiasm for academia? Why does it have to be romantic interest? Isn't more logical to deduce the former rather than say it's out of character because there is no basis nor substantiation for this claim other than an 'impression'. Fred reaction is totally ambiguous so I wouldn't assume it's romantic interest unless there are other signs which there aren't so it's too non sequitor, it just doesn't follow logically. If it were real life I wouldn't assume Fred had a crush, why would you if you could have another perfectly logical explanation that doesn't make her OOC. Fred having a passion for academia is consistent, her having feelings for girls is not and when it comes to character unless there is proof, I go for consistency.

And Fred is the kind of girl who would have stuttered about that not being what she meant, especially if she was so excited about Willow being there just as another geek. And she looked knocked back imo, not confused

Huh? Not necessarily. Fred seemed kind of like huh? And there was an awkward moment. Fred's look was ambiguous at best, but confused is more logical rather than knocked back, doesn't make sense really. Why make a character OOC if there is a perfectly rational explanation?

She was scared of magicks still at that point, even smaller spells.

Possibly, I can understand that then.

[sosalola]

Hmmm, being a fanfic writer, I'd fanwank anything I felt was out of character, Giles' behavior in S7 was him being overwhelmed that the council exploded, taking away all Giles' colleagues, a great number of resources and a great number of knowledgeable watchers... that ought to shake Giles in a bad way, leaving him lay all the burden on Buffy's shoulders, trying to see the big picture but failing, trying to protect Buffy and the world in the wrong way... perhaps if the council was still standing, Giles would still be more confident. How many times we saw him rely on the council even after he was fired? Many times.

The Scoobies kicking Buffy out, we should look at this from each character's prospective to understand them better.

Buffy's behavior in Pangs... it's a comedy... characterization usually suffer and regress in comedies, because there's no way that Buffy would care more about dinner than Xander dying... unless she's a really lousy friend.

[Laura]

I agree that Riley was OOC getting married. Imo it was also OOC when he brought Sam to Sunnydale and rubbed it in Buffy's face.

[Beck]

kana said:

My rules for looking out what is OOC lack of preceeding evidence or certain variables which can be scrutinized in said situation.

And I have no rules for finding OOC moments. I see things how I see them, I don't want to scrutinize it, I see what I see onscreen.

Anyway, I don't think anything was hinted other than Willow's misconstruction. Why can't be explained as Fred's enthusiasm for academia? Why does it have to be romantic interest? Isn't more logical to deduce the former rather than say it's out of character because there is no basis nor substantiation for this claim other than an 'impression'. Fred reaction is totally ambiguous so I wouldn't assume it's romantic interest unless there are other signs which there aren't so it's too non sequitor, it just doesn't follow logically. If it were real life I wouldn't assume Fred had a crush, why would you if you could have another perfectly logical explanation that doesn't make her OOC. Fred having a passion for academia is consistent, her having feelings for girls is not and when it comes to character unless there is proof, I go for consistency.

And again I go for what I see. Fred was no longer that school girl academic worshipper that we saw in season 3, her reverting back to that - that would also be OOC. Admiration is one thing, Fred's attitude in that episode went past that in my personal opinion. The transcript actually mentions Fred being extra smiley and giggly when talking to Willow.

Huh? Not necessarily. Fred seemed kind of like huh? And there was an awkward moment. Fred's look was ambiguous at best, but confused is more logical rather than knocked back, doesn't make sense really. Why make a character OOC if there is a perfectly rational explanation?

I didn't see it as a confused look :dunno: And I am not making a character OOC, I am interpreting the scene as I and many others saw it. I don't see the admiration as a rational explanation as Fred hasn't been that giggly admiration type for awhile.

[Kana]

And I have no rules for finding OOC moments. I see things how I see them, I don't want to scrutinize it, I see what I see onscreen.

Fair enough. I guess I'm something of a Buffy apologist at times. If something doesn't make sense, I try to rationalize it if possible. If it can be done then I don't dwell on it.

And again I go for what I see. Fred was no longer that school girl academic worshipper that we saw in season 3, her reverting back to that - that would also be OOC. Admiration is one thing, Fred's attitude in that episode went past that in my personal opinion. The transcript actually mentions Fred being extra smiley and giggly when talking to Willow.

For one being extra smiley isn't necessarily Fred flirting. She justed tended to do that when she was enthusiastic. Also we can 'regress' when people bring out certain elements in us. I've done with old friends or certain new people I meet who bring out the 'old Kana' so it makes perfect sense to me.

I didn't see it as a confused look And I am not making a character OOC, I am interpreting the scene as I and many others saw it. I don't see the admiration as a rational explanation as Fred hasn't been that giggly admiration type for awhile.

Like I said people don't necessarily lose all the elements of themselves. Spike had developed a lot but Angel brought out certain elements in him, unfavourable elements one might say but that doesn't make him un-Spikelike, it just brings out different sides of him.

[buffymanic]

well personally nothing mentioned above strikes me as OOC except maybe Giles in Season 7 and Willow in Orpheus over the magic thing.

I have to agree with Kana that I saw nothing flirtatious in Willow and Fred, to me they have always just been shown as too people that share a passion for academics and nothing more, and until Joss comes out and says Fred had a thing for Willow I'm not gonna think otherwise.

Buffy in Phangs was perhaps OOC but I agree with Sosalola, the dinner was part of the comedy and frankly I enjoy the friviless nature of the episode. Spike was absolutely in now way OOC in Beneath You, he was clearly crazy which can only be taken as a character development rather than anything else.

The end of Graduation Day, maybe it was a little corny but there is no way to say it was OOC unless you know the character history of each person there! and who cares? it was a big finish and it happens in lots of movies. Not everything on a tv show can be realistic

Riley I also dissagree with, he was always more committed to the realtionship than Buffy and I don't think it would be OOC for him to get married quickly especially considering the position he was in and its not uncommon for people in the army to do such a thing