Conversations With Dead People

[Beck]

OK I know everyone likes this episode but I'm not a fan. Whats so good about it I love the Holden/Buffy scenes but the rest of it isn't very good imo

[Allan]

The individual stories are beautifully told, and the presentation of the episode is simply beautiful. After watching Buffy for so long, it simply blew me away. I think of it in the same vein as episodes like Hush, Once More With Feeling and The Body.

To me, it just had so many beautiful elements, which created an amazing whole.

[Lizzie]

I love the title card. (is that what you call it? I dunno). It just sets it apart.

[Allan]

Yeah, I dug it too. The first time I saw it, it was on a DVD burned from it's screening in the States. I just figured they must do that for every episode... Until I saw it on TV here, and I was like "sweeet...".

[Lizzie]

The only other episode that has the title at the start is OMWF. And that's a great episode.

Ooh, the scene where Dawn is like "knock if you're alone" scares me!

[Allan]

Yeah, though with OMWF, it was really apparent that it was done by design.

The Dawn stuff was kind of scary, and I thought the Willow scenes were beautiful - I think it worked better than it would have if Amber Benson was actually available.

[Lizzie]

Mm...Amber Benson didn't want to do it because she thought it would be disrespectful to the character and to the fans. I didn't really like Cassie, so I think I would have preferred it with Amber.

[Bre]

I loved this ep. I agree with Allan in the sense I think it's in the same group of great episodes like Hush and OMWF. Holden is a great character - him and Buffy interacted really well. And I thought Dawn's sequence was incredible. Freaky as hell when the demon thing was on Joyce on the couch. I think it would have been more effective if Amber Benson showed up instead of Cassie, but I still think Cassie was freaky as the First.

Beck what didn't you like about the other storylines?

[Laura]

I loved this episode too. It was the first episode where no one crossed paths (because of filming issues lol), and that was unique, especially for a TV show which is all about the characters. I also loved the scenes with Cassie and Willow. I knew that it wasn't Tara, but it was still upsetting. I also loved the little word exchange they had after Willow realized it wasn't Tara.

The parts with Dawn were scary, and that was also exciting. I didn't like how her Mother told her Buffy wouldn't be on her side, but it was the First trying to twist around her thoughts.

I also just loved how the episode was made. In the beginning, while a song was played, it showed everyone and where they were, and they were all alone. And then in the end, they all stayed alone, yet they were all at least a little shaken up.

For me, it was just a really great episode which kept me interested.

[Beck]

I don't get that its anywhere near close to Hush or OMWF. Holden scenes aside, I didn't find it enjoyable. Dawn is one of my least favourite characters and her scene to me felt ridiculous. I was scared for her, or for Joyce. It just bugged me and made me want to hit fast-forward, which rarely happens to me in ANY BtVS episode. The Willow/Cassie scenes pissed me off mostly because I don't care if they couldnt get Amber Benson - having Cassie made NO SENSE. The First can be anyone who has died, good or bad. If Amber Benson wouldn't do it, what about Xander/Jesse instead? I also don't find the actress who plays Cassie to be very good at all, and her character bugs me.

The Holden scenes I did enjoy. Imo its the most overrated episode in the entire series. I don't hate it, but I wouldn't put it anywhere close to being a great episode.

[Bre]

I don't think the First would have been portrayed as anyone Willow was close to because then she would know they weren't really dead - how could they connect with Tara?

[Beck]

What do you mean then she'd know they werent really dead The first can take the form of ANY dead/has died person. The First doesn't connect with them, it just appears as them. And since its as old as and sees everything it knows how to manipulate that knowledge to trick people into thinking it is their loved one.

[Bre]

I know but when you said,

The First can be anyone who has died, good or bad. If Amber Benson wouldn't do it, what about Xander/Jesse instead?

The First wouldn't have been as successful at manipulating Wil if, say, Xander showed up saying Tara was saying those things. Because how could Xander contact Tara. I think The First was believable as Cassie because it was easy for Willow to believe they were both in the same dimensional whatever so they could speak to eachother, while Xander was obviously alive.

[Beck]

No! I meant why not have JESSE turn up for Xander! Have the interaction between those two The First can't appear as Xander, he's alive

[Bre]

Oooh! I get it. I thought you meant Xander or Jesse. And no to think of it Xander never died ... except in the WIsh. Okay to what you were really saying, you think that would have been effective? I mean we only knew Jesse for a couple episodes, would that have been anymore effective than Cassie with Willow?

[Beck]

Jesse's siring and death had a massive impact on Xander all through out the show. It was Jesse's death that gave Xander his deep hatred of Vamps and made it hard for him to accept Angel not being evil. It wouldn't have been as effective as Tara, no way. But Cassie was out of place there imo and it bugged me.

[Allan]

The reason that I really like Cassie showing up to Willow is that the first is really screwing with Willow here. It's leading her to believe that Tara has a message, but because of Willow's actions, she's being deprived. It was sinking a level lower to get under her skin.

While I would have loved to see Jesse with Xander, I don't think it would have had the same emotional resonance. Granted, Jesse's death shaped Xander, but:
1) It's something viewers hadn't seen since the beginning
2) They weren't lovers, and there wasn't much in the way of guilt on Xander's part.

One CWDP thing that would have been nice would have been Giles and Jenny. Hmm... seems like a fic to write - "MORE Conversations With Dead People", but I'd just need more ideas.

[Beck]

lol I had thought of that, but Giles hadn't arrived in Sunnydale at that point yet

[Bre]

Plus didn't the First come to Willow to try to get her to kill herself because it knew Willow was powerful, so why would he come to Xander? The First probably didn't care if Xander died or not because he wasn't a big threat (in his eyes).

[Veverka]

To me that Cassie, who Willow never met, came to talk to her was ludicrous. I'm with you Beck, I didn't like the whole episode. It was written by four different writers, one for each part, and I think that this is clear- it's a jerky episode with no flow, that's just how I see it. The only thing I like is the Angie Hart song, and that just makes the episode look promising, then it disappoints.