Consequences

[Allan]

I was watching "Consequences" yesterday evening, where Faith takes her final steps to the dark side, as it were.

While rewatching it, I found the fight at the docks interesting. Faith saves Buffy from Mr Trick, and I had always thought of this as her conscience getting the better of her. She sees Buffy in trouble, thinks about it, and saves her.

But on re-watching this episode yesterday, and this scene in particular, I noticed something else. As the crate falls down toward Buffy earlier in the scene, Faith pushes Buffy out of the way. It was instinct. It didn't take the thought that we saw later in the scene. Basically, as far gone as Faith was, she was still protecting Buffy.

Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

To me, it shows that while Faith didn't see eye to eye with Buffy, and was heading toward corruption, she still cared about Buffy - she was the role model that Faith never had. Faith went to the Mayor because she thought that was what was expected of her. In some messed up way, Faith did what she did because that's what Buffy expected her to do, and she didn't want to "disappoint" her.

[Forsaken]

I've always believed that Faith (and indeed most villians) are not inherintly evil. Faith's instincts were to be good but she fell to the darkside because of bitterness and jealousy. In most people/things when evil is done it's because something in there past made them go against what they know is the right thing. I think this is actually pretty true to real life as well. Most people know the difference between right and wrong and will naturally do the right thing. That is unless they CHOOSE to do the wrong thing because something from their past deemed it enjoyable, likely to get a response they desire such as attention or likely to cause others harm in (possibly misconcieved) retalliation. Of course an evil choice rarely actually gets the desired effect but that's the universes way of distributing justice. Sadly many people just don't get that. For some reason criminals and nasty people are often pissy that they're lfe sucks, go figure.

Then again, maybe I'm an optimist. After all there are some bad people out there that have it pretty good. Hell, we keep voting some of them into office.

[Allan]

I don't think there's any denying that Faith is inherently evil. If people thought she was toward the end of Buffy season 3, I think their perceptions would be altered by the end of season 7 where Faith was well onto the path of redemption.

I think circumstances played a large role in Faith's downfall, and through this, she still wasn't as "evil" as she thought she was herself.

[Beck]

No one else really replied to this, so I hope we get more response this time. I think it was instinct on Faith's part. I think Faith in a way "chose" to go to the dark side - she wanted acceptance and she wanted to be worshiped and thought of as above everyone else. As such Faith was selfish and vain. But instinctively she protects when not thinking.

So... to make it interesting... is that instinct Faith herself or Slayer instinct? And are there more thoughts on the original topic?

[Allan]

I think the instinct to save Buffy was Faith's instinct. As for the Slayer instinct, I think it's largely an evil thing, and that might have been part of what corrupted Faith. Which brings up some interesting thoughts as to why a potential Slayer is "chosen" - do they theoretically have the inner strength to counter the Slayer instinct?

[shred]

May 18, 2008 11:51:23 GMT 10 Allan said:

I think the instinct to save Buffy was Faith's instinct.

I disagree. I think it was the Slayer's instinct that saved Buffy and not Faith's instinct. Since Faith is the Slayer, I believe that it was ingrained in Faith that she was to help people in trouble and since Buffy was in trouble, her Slayer instinct kicked in and she did what she had to do.

Nov 18, 2007 13:01:13 GMT 10 Allan said:

To me, it shows that while Faith didn't see eye to eye with Buffy, and was heading toward corruption, she still cared about Buffy - she was the role model that Faith never had. Faith went to the Mayor because she thought that was what was expected of her. In some messed up way, Faith did what she did because that's what Buffy expected her to do, and she didn't want to "disappoint" her.

Gotta disagree with you there. I don't quite understand why you would think that Faith would turn to the Mayor because that is what she thought Buffy expected her to do. I always believed that she went to the Mayor because she wanted to be a her own and play by her own rules. She needed to come out of Buffy's shadow so badly that she would turn to anything to do so. Unfortunately she turned to the bad side. I don't think she cared whether it was the right to do or whether Buffy would have wanted her to do it or not. As long as she didn't have to be under Buffy's shadow. That could be blamed on Faith's instinct. The need to separate herself from Buffy.

I never really thought of Faith looking up to Buffy as a role model. Part of her did and I think part of her hated herself for looking up to Buffy. Could be another reason why she went 'evil'.