Angel Season 5

[Lexie]

I was thinking about Angel season 5 and all the things you guys have posted about it and I'm wondering why you seem to dislike it so much. Yes, it had it's downfalls--

1. Too much Spike
2. Not enough Lorne
3. Eve's a waste of space
4. Illyria should have been introduced sooner

Still, though, I don't think it's bad, I find it quite enjoyable, actually. And there isn't nearly as much Buffy Season 7 hate...let's not go there, though.

So, why the hatred for it?

[Glenn]

Those things you mentioned are very large factors towards the hate. I think its the only time Joss has got it wrong on a few fronts at once with the intro of Eve, the over the top focus on Spike and the lack of Lorne. I have come to enjoy the season though if i try to focus my attention on Angel's struggle to cope with being in the belly of the beast.

[Bre]

I loved season five:

1. Too much Spike - There was the perfect amount of Spike I thought. At first he kind of threw off the camaraderie of the Angel cast, but I got used to him right away because I love his character. Who he's with doesn't matter to me as long as I'm entertained - and I was.
2. Not enough Lorne - There has never been that much Lorne throughout the whole series. I didn't really miss him all that much.
3. Eve's a waste of space - I think it was a poor casting choice. She wasn't intimidating at all like I think she was meant to be.
4. Illyria should have been introduced sooner - Why? That would mean less Fred. Illyria had enough time to develop as a new character, imo.

I loved this season. 41/50

[Shaun]

Add to those reasons too much Harmony and no Cordelia.

[Paul]

i loved season 5 too, my only fault with it was that they crammed in too much in the last few eps. but they had to do that to tie up the loose ends seeing as they knew it was gonna be the final season

20/100

[Kana]

I thought Season 5 was interesting and brave, although it wasn't my fave.

1. Too much Spike

I actually liked Spike and Angel. I like comparing their characters.

2. Not enough Lorne

There were some nice Lorne moments but I agree he was underused. If they had another season then maybe that could have perhaps been a little better.

3. Eve's a waste of space

Eve should have got kicked out of garden long ago. It's annoying really because I understand what they were trying to do and it didn't work. They had to replace Lorne as the chorus/confident but she's not warm enough for Angel to really trust her but she's not sexy/dark enough to be interesting. I get that they tried to have all the moral ambiguity but she seemed dull and annoying when she was trying to be seductive and smart.

4. Illyria should have been introduced sooner

I would have loved to have seen more Illyria.

I think I have more thoughts on it but I'll save it for when my brain starts working again.

[Laura]

I enjoyed season 5 as well. There were some faults, but overall I thought it was a good season.

1) I didn't think there was too much of Spike. I didn't like the way he acted sometimes, but I thought his soul really was showed around Fred and at the end of "Damage." I also enjoyed seeing Angel and him together again.

2) As Kana said, there were some good Lorne moments. I guess it would have been fun to see more, though.

3) Eve was a pretty bad character, but I never really hated her all that much. I liked her and Lindsey together and I didn't think there was too too much of her .

4) I have no problem with when Illyria was introduced. It would have been nice to see more of her, but I also loved Fred. I didn't want to see less of her!

[Beck]

I like Season 5, but its by far the weakest season. And Lexie hun, Season 7 Buffy is largely hated by a lot of fans

1. Too much Spike - not just too much Spike, too much out of character Spike. His development was largely all undone But he shouldnt have been such a big focus, I agree.

2. Not enough Lorne - completely agree.

3. Eve's a waste of space - Badly cast, bad character. She was annoying

4. Illyria should have been introduced sooner - Possibly, but she was originally intended to feature heavily in a sixth season before it was axed I believe.

5. Too much Harmony - Agreed.

No Cordelia. - Also agreed. She was missed.

[Kana]

Season 5 is kind of wonky but I have to say that's more the pressure of the network rather than the evil of Joss lol.

It does have some gems in my opinions.

What struck about the season is that it's changes the premise of the show without us losing Angel completely. It asks the question 'Can you fight the system from the inside of the Beast' and it's not an easy question to answer, especially in the last season when moral absolutes were attacked to readily. All Angel has left is his own morals and believes. I actually believe this but our champion takes this to the next level in the final episode.

Lindsay

I loved seeing Lindsay back. It struck me how smart he is. I mean he's relatively young but he's acheived more than most of the lawyers at W&H. I believe he really take Holland Manner's speech to heart. It's about power. Lindsay turned his back on justice and chose power and if he takes this as gospel which he seemed to, then he'll always be a threat. Power doesn't care about good and evil, it doesn't care who it hurts; it pursues tenaciously like a ravenous beast. To Angel Lindsay's no different or better the Senior Partners. Lorne must have read that Lindsay would do anything he can to get to the top. It doesn't matter whether you compromise with good, if your intentions are ultimately for gain and this greed is insatiable, with W&H always existing in one way or another, you'll never be a part of the solution.

He made a great villain although I couldn't really see him with Eve. Darla was captivating and had depth, Eve, doesn't. I heard a theory that Eve was Lindsay's sacrifice to get into the circle. I thought that made sense. Lindsay could do better.

Lorne

Why go through the trouble of making someone a Season regular only to use them less than before. It was interesting however to discover that Lorne often pays lip service rather actually give his honest opinion. When you think about it, this must be true. Lorne joined AI as an official employee so he must have been interested in justice.

I think I remember in Conviction however, when he is reading their employees he puts the 'Evil' column before the 'To be fired' column. Does this mean Lorne is willing to compromise with evil? This said at the end I found Lorne amazing, showing real depth of character. He is actually the most judgemental of Angel's morally ambiguous actions. In all fairness he's not simply getting at Angel, it's W&H. I think he blames himself for flirting so readily with the shades of grey. Although Lorne isn't in Season 5 a great deal, his moments of development were interesting

Spike

Spike was a little irritating in early Season 5 although his development was interesting. For me the whole 'for the girl' thing started to great at the end of Season 7 of Buffy.

"I did this for you. The soul, the changes - it's what you wanted."

That made me want to heave. When she said he should go back to being the badass Spike he obliged, but I still felt dry because I wondered if Buffy said 'Spike bend over' would he say 'How far?'.

What I liked about Spike on Angel is that he began to get his own identity as a hero outside the definition of one Buffy Summers. He even stated that he stayed in LA because it's what he wanted (as opposed to staying for Fred's memory) This was spot on and I respected him a lot more.

Good eps

There were some good eps

Conviction was a great opener, perhaps one of the best.

Lineage was just WOW!!!!! Cements Wes as one of my fave characters

Destiny has some great choreograhy. It almost feels cinematic compare that fight to early Buffy fights.

Damage, is a great ep that reflects on both vampires and their days of evil. I may go into detail on that ep later cause I love it.

You're Welcome. Cordy, Great!!!!!! CC's best performance on Angel ever.

Smile Time is a funny episode but's more than that. I'll probably analyse that later

A Whole.../Shell I take these eps as one. Great! Heart rending, well acted. "Why can't I stay?"

Underneath has Lindsay. Nuff said.

Power Play. Angel's gone dark, or has he.....?

NFA. Angel shows why he's the champion of the human condition. I bet Angel does slay the dragon.

[shred]

1. Too much Spike
Definitely. His story ended in Chosen and it should have stayed that way. There wasn't any story for his character in season 5 so I don't understand the need to bring him over. As a result, it cheapened his death and he was so out of character.

2. Not enough Lorne
Absolutely. I believe there would be enough of him if Spike wasn't around. Lorne was going through something (killing Lindsey proved that) and we only saw glimspes of that transition. It's not enough in my opinion, esp when the transition changed Lorne so much that I hardly recognised him in Not Fade Away.

3. Eve's a waste of space
Yes, yes and yes! Hamilton should have been there from the start.

4. Illyria should have been introduced sooner
This I disagree. I thought she came in at the right time.

Season 5 is not a bad season but I wouldn't say that it's my favourite. The second half of the season was a lot better than the first half though.

[Deleted]

1. Too much Spike
I agree his storyline ended in "Chosen." I don't think he needed to be brought back. I love Spike, but he had finished his journey. However, once he was brought back there were aspects of his relationship with Angel (not having anything to do with Buffy) and his dealing with being back that weren't really covered or weren't covered well. He didn't need to be there, but once he was they could have done much better.

2. Not enough Lorne
Again, I agree. I don't think it's due to the (re)introduction of Spike, though. I, personally, don't think they had a real clear idea of what part they wanted Lorne to play in the "new" W&H.

3. Eve's a waste of space
Pretty much.

4. Illyria should have been introduced sooner
I think she came in at the right time during the season, but the time it took Fred to actually die and "become" Illyria taxed on me a bit during the episode.

Season 5 is one of my favorites. It has it's issues, and it certainly improves as it progresses further in the season, but there was a lot of great stuff in it, even if some of that stuff could have been expanded on further or executed a bit better.

[Allan]

1. Too much Spike
He did come full circle in "Chosen", but he represented a great foil for Angel throughout the series, and helped with the show's new dynamic. I don't think it focused too much on him, personally.

2. Not enough Lorne
Agreed. And I agree with Marie that it was probably due to the producers not being sure how to integrate him into the new setting.

3. Eve's a waste of space
I don't dislike her. She served a purpose that Hamilton couldn't have if he was around from day 1. She bugged me when she was relegated to "Lindsay's scared little girlfriend", though.

4. Illyria should have been introduced sooner
The timing worked for me. I would have liked to have seen more of her, but that's symptomatic of the show wrapping up at season 5.

[Dani]

I loved Season five but I agree there was to much Harmony, no Cordelia.

Plus the fact that Lorne was underused annoyed the hell out of me, I mean Lorne was the story teller they could have used him a little more but oh well.

Illyria could have been introduced sooner but I loved Fred, wish her and Wes had actually gotten together. well they did but when Illyria showed up all he had was a shape shifter, Eve was pathetic mean don't get me wrong Sarah Thompson is a good actress but her character Eve was really bad.

but over all except for the final episode which left me very confused it was good had it's faults but what series doesn't now a days.

[Amber]

One of the points that I really agree with is "too much Spike". It got to a point where it was just, well, annoying. When he was on Angel he was a really attention whore. Not his fault, of course. It's the writers. But yeah.

[Bre]

I liked Harmony a hell of a lot more on Angel s5 than any episode of Buffy. I think most of her comic relief was at the right moment, and I actually liked her. But I did miss Cordy.

[Allan]

Yeah, Harmony was really fleshed out in Angel, and they actually made her an enjoyable character.

[shred]

I agree, Bre. We got to see many sides of Harmony in Angel and that is what made her more enjoyable as a character and a character to watch.

I find that the second half of the season was more interesting than the first half.

[buffymanic]

I love season 5 entirely! sure there are a few bad moments but there aren't any episodes that I would skip. I like Eve's character especially in life of the party She served her purpose well and paved the way for Hamilton, without him the season finales wouldn't have been as good

[Allan]

Yeah, Eve did pave the way for Hamilton brilliantly. Basically, Eve was a bitch, but I think a lot of Hamilton's success was due to what a big threat he was compared to her.

[Kana]

I find it funny that Lorne said, he liked Hamilton more than Eve. I was like "Hell yeah".