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Post by Beck on Jan 14, 2011 21:02:26 GMT 10
Well quite a few of us have seen it now so why not give it its own thread - there are quite a few things to discuss I'd think! Black Swan. Amazing. I have to go a second time some day soon. What did you love so much about it? I saw it tonight and while I did like it, I don't think I'd watch it again. Natalie Portman was very good but my god was her character whacked. It was a little hard at times to know what she was imagining and what was actually happening. I liked Mila too she suited her role but she really wasn't in it all that much. Oh and hey Winona Ryder is in it!  |
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Post by Loz on Jan 14, 2011 21:21:38 GMT 10
Yeah i'm on the WTF side of things here. Where is this incredible amount of praise coming from!?  It was pretty obvious what was going on from early on so i didn't really feel any suspense or tension. I am a dance freak (especially movies featuring dancing) and i have always liked the ballet Swan Lake, but at times i was downright bored. I did a bit of seat shifting and watch checking here and there. And while my mind was on a certain sick someone i admit, i wasn't really into it. Natalie was excellent yes. Unless something dire happens or there is a backlash she will have an Oscar in a couple of months i imagine. But i found myself thinking, oh she is doing a good job here acting as a ballet dancer. And that's just it - i knew she was acting. I watched The King's Speech and thought afterwards about how fantastic the three leads were, but not once in there did that cross my mind. I was too busy enthralled with the story and watching 'Bertie', 'The Queen mother' and 'Lionel' going about on the screen. Mila, as much as i like the girl, is getting nominated for what exactly?? Dancing aside I don't see that as a difficult or complex part in the slightest. Hershey should be getting nominated for Best Supporting if anyone. I might watch it again on DVD one day but i'm certainly in no hurry. While I believe Shaun would appreciate some of the film, i think a lot of guys will be disappointed i have to say |
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Post by Bre on Jan 14, 2011 23:03:30 GMT 10
Oh man I loved everything about it. There was stuff in this movie that I have never seen in film before: shot wise, story-wise, acting, etc. The story was a great re-telling of Swan Lake and I don't think it was supposed to be the kind of thriller that kept you wondering if she was crazy or not. I think from the beginning it was pretty obvious Lily was a bit messed up psychologically and that the point was just to watch and understand what she was going through, not to guess whether or not stuff was happening. I mean most of it was obviously a delusion.
The sound in the movie was phenomenal. I LOVED hearing wings/feathers flapping at random times throughout the film (like once when Lily was on the subway). Some of the stuff going on during the editing of the club scene was great. When Lily and Mila (I forget her name) were dancing, there were great distorted shots and creepy Swan people popping up: very Aronofsky I thought.
As for the acting nods, Natalie's is very well deserved. I don't agree with you Loz that all I saw was her acting. I was completely convinced that she was her character. Mila on the other hand, I don't think her nod is as deserved just because it's not that outside of the box for her acting wise. She was great but nothing new. I think Melissa Leo will snatch that award for The Fighter.
What did you guys think of her "literal" transformations? My sister thought it was ridiculous (even though obviously not real, she didn't think it was necessary to show). I disagree, but what do you guys think?
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Post by Loz on Jan 15, 2011 7:19:56 GMT 10
Natalie = Nina, Mila = Lily mate. I never thought it was the kind of thriller that you wondered what was going to happen. Nina is a walking nervous breakdown from the moment we see her. With the scratch marks and seeing strange people around in the dark and the constant sound effects (which i found annoying) there's not a moment in the film in which she feels like anything other than a wreck. She is just a collection of neurotic behaviors, not a character. She is non-relatable and to be quite honest i didn't give a toss about her. Are we meant to root for her? Are we meant to be scared for her? Are we honestly meant to care what happens to her?? We never understand what's at stake for her as an artist and dancer, other than sheer achievement for achievement's sake. There is absolutely no attention to the question of why performing matters to her. I get what she is going through, i just did not care. To me Natalie's work isn't that of a brilliant actress, it does not seem effortless, rather the hard and no doubt extremely grueling work of a dedicated performer. The fact is it looks like a performance, yes a good one that will win awards, but a performance none the less. And like i said before i am a sucker for a dance movie. Even in something trashy like Step Up i am in awe of what people can do. For a film set entirely in this world of dance and about its power i got none of that awe. In the ballet scenes themselves Aronofsky seems a bit clueless. I got no idea of any real choreography. The French git talks about this version of Swan Lake being new and bold and stripped back and sexy blah, blah. blah. Looked pretty common to me. Could have been staged down at the local theatre really  By the time it got to the literal transformations i was way over it. Have to agree with your sister on that one Bre  |
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Post by Bre on Jan 15, 2011 9:02:51 GMT 10
Just because she's a wreck she's not a character? And you don't care about her because of that? You didn't feel for her for the fact that she was smothered by her mother her whole life and completely pressured to be a perfect ballerina? How is she non-relatable? I can relate to the smothering mom (obviously not to that effect) and the pressure. I can't relate to the craziness, but in most great films, the characters are nothing like myself and non-relateable, but it doesn't stop me from being emerged in the film. "Are we meant to root for her?" Maybe. I wanted her to get the lead, but I wasn't rooting for her in the sense that she thought Lily was her problem (sorry about the name thing, I have to see it again.  ) "Are we meant to be scared for her?" Yeah I think so. If I knew this girl in real life, I would be disturbed by her behavior. The things she was doing and thinking were neurotic and yeah, scary. I don't think those two questions are conflicting. I think you can root for (or not if you choose) and be scared of her. What's at stake for her? Well her sanity for one. But just like any sport movie, the pressure to be the best is enough to drive someone crazy. Especially when you've put so much time and effort into one career, it is extremely important to be the best. She was loyal to the dance company her whole life, a great dancer, and I wanted her to do great. I find it a little discerning that you couldn't care for what she was going through at all. Just as another human being (character or not), how can you not feel bad for someone falling into madness? As for the acting, fair enough. Of course it was a performance. All acting is a performance. But I still think she was amazing. As for the dance parts, the dream scene at the very beginning was so beautiful and everything shot on stage mesmerized me. I don't think Aronofsky was clueless at all. I think he knew exactly how to shoot Nina's point of view in a very beautifully creepy way. He wasn't shooting a ballet, he was shooting a movie about a ballerina. As for the choreography, I don't know a lot about the Swan Lake (I've only seen it once) choreography, so I don't know how much different or whatever it was than in the film. But if that ignorance let me enjoy the film more, I'm very glad. I figured you wouldn't like the literal transformations. Not many people I've talked to did. Here's why I did: Every damn movie is so hung up on the "metaphor of blah blah blah" and NEVER use the film medium to do more than a "metaphor". Why the hell not? If a filmmaker has the resources to show us something like a girl turning into a swan, show it. This is what was really happening to Nina in her mind, and if the movie is about Nina's psychological downfall, then the filmmaker should do everything they can to show us that. I thought it was brilliant. Of course it looked goofy at times, but it didn't distract me from the movie. All this talk is making me want to see it again. |
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Post by Loz on Jan 15, 2011 9:36:49 GMT 10
Just because she's a wreck she's not a character? And you don't care about her because of that? You didn't feel for her for the fact that she was smothered by her mother her whole life and completely pressured to be a perfect ballerina? How is she non-relatable? I can relate to the smothering mom (obviously not to that effect) and the pressure. I can't relate to the craziness, but in most great films, the characters are nothing like myself and non-relateable, but it doesn't stop me from being emerged in the film. I can't relate if i'm not given material to relate to I didn't find the character rounded or real. No, I think the questions are linked. I wasn't really supporting her. And i wasn't really scared for her. I was well aware of what was going on but because i didn't know her my care factor simply wasn't high. I take it you find it disconcerting? I didn't see her as a whole character, as a realised character. I knew pretty much nothing about her apart from "The Dancer". No real personality, no tastes, no preferences, no real history and very little in the way of motivation past perfection. I find it difficult to connect to a film where that is the case for the lead. I find it hard to care. You aren't meant to SEE the performance, you are meant to see the person. I have watched a lot of films in my time and for me its sometimes as simple as watching a person or watching an actor/actress playing a person. In this Natalie was the later. I'm not saying she wasn't excellent. She was. She will be rewarded. And part of understanding a ballerina is understanding ballet. The beauty of it. The power of it. For me his dance scenes did not harness that, did not show that. I was not in any way moved. Its not like he isn't capable. In The Wrestler i found an appreciation for wrestling, it was real and emotive and in parts i had a visceral reaction to it. Didn't here. And dancing is a medium i am already easily drawn in to. So yes i did think he was clueless about dance. It was same old, same old. When its all about making it different i don't really get that. Was disappointing. Like i said i was way over it by then. It was more a "Here we go  " reaction from me i'm afraid. Yeah its making me dislike it more  |
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Post by Bre on Jan 15, 2011 9:55:13 GMT 10
Well I guess we can agree to disagree. I've heard all of your reasonings before, and I don't agree, but I can understand I guess? I definitely understand it isn't a movie for everybody, I'm just incredibly glad it was made because it is one of those rare films for me that made me love movies even more. |
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Post by Lizzie on Jan 15, 2011 10:44:53 GMT 10
I have been thinking about this movie since I saw it, but not in a good way. I liked it after I finished it, but thinking about it later - I really don't like it. It's not that it was a thriller (although I am not a fan of the genre) - it's just....strange. I agree with your comments Loz, Nina is an extremely strange character, and not strange 'in a good way!'. There's just something off about it. I don't think Mila's performance was particularly outstanding, she was just kinda of there.
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Post by Bre on Jan 15, 2011 10:56:53 GMT 10
Since when is a movie being strange a bad thing? I prefer the odd movies because they're something unique as opposed to the usual crap we get. |
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Post by Lizzie on Jan 15, 2011 11:22:04 GMT 10
Sorry, I wasn't very clear - I enjoy strange movies! This movie was...perhaps unsettling is the best word, and I didn't really like it. I guess that means it has achieved its goal - to be unsettling I mean. It felt like something was missing - but I don't know what!
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Post by Lizzie on Jan 18, 2011 15:36:20 GMT 10
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Post by Bre on Jan 18, 2011 15:49:55 GMT 10
Oh no you don't. You can't go from really enjoying BS to liking CS more. JK. I liked Center Stage, but they aren't in the same league. |
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Post by Lizzie on Jan 18, 2011 15:52:50 GMT 10
I know. Centre Stage did give us this magnificent quote though - I am the best goddamn dancer in the American Ballet Academy. Who the hell are you? Nobody. |
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Post by Loz on Jan 18, 2011 16:04:37 GMT 10
No they aren't in the same league to me. Loved one and hated the other. Will watch Centre Stage over and over and over and probably won't watch Black Swan ever again |
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Post by Beck on Jan 18, 2011 17:13:44 GMT 10
No way are they similar apart from both being dance movies. As far as entertainment goes I prefer Centre Stage but it was no where near as well made as Black Swan, it is what it is meant to be - a light dance movie. Black Swan is much much darker and imo of far better quality.
I don't think it is something I'd see often, if I see it at all again. But it was well acted and well made. My problem with it was that I didn't really like Nina, she was too psychotic and they didn't spend any time making her likable. I wasn't so much scared for her but for others she was around. When she killed "Lily" that showed why. In the end it was only herself that she hurt but I wasn't fussed that she died (or would have died). They never made Nina a character you could like, they made her this cold frigid ballerina with a buttload of mental issues.
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Post by shred on Feb 14, 2011 0:22:14 GMT 10
Saw it just awhile ago with my mum and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I thought Portman deserved her nom and I really hope she wins it. She really nailed her character in every way. Still scratching my head as to why Kunis was nominated though. She was hardly there! As for the literal transformation, I was happy that it was included. I thought it was done brilliantly as well. It's nice to see her transformation manifest literally on screen instead of making the audience try to imagine she was turning into the black swan. I didn't expect the stabbing of herself. I really thought she would kill Lily as it looked like it was heading that way - and then Nina would kill herself after that performance by jumping of something. So the ending was a little unexpected for me. One thing I know for sure after this movie is that I'm glad I'm not a ballerina. |
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Black Swan. Amazing. I have to go a second time some day soon. 
It was pretty obvious what was going on from early on so i didn't really feel any suspense or tension. I am a dance freak (especially movies featuring dancing) and i have always liked the ballet Swan Lake, but at times i was downright bored. I did a bit of seat shifting and watch checking here and there. And while my mind was on a certain sick someone i admit, i wasn't really into it. 
) "Are we meant to be scared for her?" Yeah I think so. If I knew this girl in real life, I would be disturbed by her behavior. The things she was doing and thinking were neurotic and yeah, scary. I don't think those two questions are conflicting. I think you can root for (or not if you choose) and be scared of her. 
" reaction from me i'm afraid. 
