Episode by Episode Discussion

[Beck]

Well since there's interest, here we go again! What will happen is that each person will take a turn to pick an episode and then we will all watch it and have an in depth discussion on that episode.

If you want to be added to the list, PM Me don't post it in this thread, this thread can remain for the episode discussions only. If your name is not on the list, you may still join in on the discussion.

Who's turn to choose
Beck - Hush
Amber - Orpheus
Allan
Laura
Bre
Tash
Lissa
Marie
Nico

First episode to go with is Hush. So get watching guys. Once you've watched it feel free to jump in first with your opinions, don't wait for some other slacker to start!

[Deleted]

I thought this episode was absolutely brilliant. I remember being incredibly terrified the first time I watched it and I still get shivers running up and down by spine when I see it. Nothing else has scared me the same way since.

I really liked how he took the concept of a children's rhyme/story and brought it to life. He played on every child's worst fear when he did that. I also think it's remarkable, though I was only able to really appreciate it after having seen it once, that so much of the episode was shot in silence. I never missed a beat. I didn't feel like I was missing anything because the characters couldn't talk.

The opening scene in psych class/hallway has always made me cringe. I've never been a huge fan of Ruffy and Maggie Walsh's character herself is fairly cringe-worthy, in my opinion, though I know that was part of the point of her character. And, come on...petroleum? Buffy, I'm sure you can think of a better cover than that. Although, thinking of all the excuses she's used over the years, maybe not.

I liked Xander and Anya at the beginning when they were talking about their relationship. It's one of the few times they took it beyond just sex. Giles' drawings during the "lecture" were funny. Speaking of Giles, I liked seeing him and Olivia. I'd always hoped to see him find someone he could stay with for a bit after what happened with Jenny, but the writers must have had different ideas. I like the scene at the end between Willow and Tara. I'll always be a Willow/Oz fan, but I like Tara and I think this was a nice scene to kind of kick off their friendship.

Honestly, I think the opening scene is really the biggest issue I have with the episode. It definitely ranks within my top 5.

I'll stop for a bit and let others have a go.

[Beck]

I think this episode takes a little long to get started but I guess the stories need to be set up adequately. I also cringe with the Ruffy scene in the lecture, I think its pointless and annoying.

Once it goes silent, I cant find much fault with it. The gentleman's helpers look a bit weird, but the Gentlemen themselves are creepy. They still creep me out, and I really feel for the guy who dies onscreen in his room when he's screaming but no one can hear him. The rhyme is freaky

Can't even shout, can't even cry
The Gentlemen are coming by.
Looking in windows, knocking on doors,
They need to take seven and they might take yours.
Can't call to mom, can't say a word,
You're gonna die screaming but you won't be heard.

Xander and Anya together after Xander thinks she's dead is very sweet, and funny with Anya's miming for sex Giles' drawings are hilarious, and I love Buffy's 'staking' that the others mistake for... something else

[Deleted]

There are certainly some wonderfully hilarious scenes that they pull off brilliantly that probably wouldn't work so well if they weren't temporarily mute.

I hadn't thought about the episode taking a while to set up, but you're right. I had always liked that it starts as a regular episode and then moves into actually playing out the nursery rhyme. To be honest, I don't know if it would have worked quite so well if they had just run the episode in silence from the start. While, cinematically speaking, it may have been just as powerful an episode I don't think it would have hit as well as it did with the audience. (Did any of that make sense?)

[Alissa]

Here's what I liked about "Hush":
1. The beginning of the era of Willow and Tara. I love that scene where they move the vending machine.
2. Off what haffner and Beck said, I really like the rhyme, and the whole concept of the children's story into creepy monsters.
3. No words. I mean, come on. It's just so original.
4. Like haffner and Beck said, the Xanya aspects.
5. The whole part where Giles is presenting the Gentlemen. The slides, Buffy's misunderstanding, Willow's miming of screaming, then dying, and Anya eating popcorn while seeing the gruesome drawings.
6. The creepiness of the Gentlemen.
7. When Buffy tries to get Riley to break the box and he breaks the wrong thing and looks up for praise. You know Riley, sweet guy, not that bright.

[Beck]

haffner280 said:

I hadn't thought about the episode taking a while to set up, but you're right. I had always liked that it starts as a regular episode and then moves into actually playing out the nursery rhyme. To be honest, I don't know if it would have worked quite so well if they had just run the episode in silence from the start. While, cinematically speaking, it may have been just as powerful an episode I don't think it would have hit as well as it did with the audience. (Did any of that make sense?)

Oh the opening was needed to set it up, going straight into it wouldn't have worked as well, but I noticed when watching it that the start seemed very slow to me.

Riley looking up for praise also made me laugh, he so desperately wanted to protect her and have her think of him as the hero. The confusion in his face when she starts to scream illustrates the beginnings of what will be shown later in that the military really don't know what they are doing as much as she does - Riley would never have been able to stop the Gentlemen as he didn't know how. Buffy, having the research and not just the KILL KILL KILL mentality to demons, is the much better equipted fighter, strength not even counting.

[Laura]

I agree with what you guys have all said. I also think the beginning scene was useless and kinda weird. However, the riddle was amazing and I liked how Riley changed into a Gentleman. It was a cool way to tie a dream of passion and a predicting dream of Buffy's into one, though.

I also liked the humorous parts, like when Professor Walsh points at the sign that says "in case of emergencies, use stairs" and the parts with Buffy, Willow, Xander, Anya, and Giles looking at the slide show. I also liked when Xander used the phone, and Spike gave him that look .

However, I thought Giles "friend" coming over was also kinda of pointless, like the beginning scene. However, the part where she looks out the window and the Gentleman passes by always gets me!

Finally, I loved the ending. I thought it was deep, since during the episode the character physically couldn't talk. Then, by the end, Riley and Buffy didn't even know what to say to each other- so they still remained quiet. That ending was just really good imo.

[Beck]

Really why did you think Giles having Olivia come to stay was pointless? I at the time thought it was setting it up for her to stay awhile and have a love interest for Giles, and it did set up Spike going to stay with Xander.

[Laura]

Ooh, that's true. Well, I don't know. She just kinda left after that episode, so it was just a weird side note. I did like how Spike had to stay with Xander, though .

[Nico]

I never liked Olivia and Giles, but I thought it weird that someone as awesome as Giles didnt have any Lady friends.

The episode was great, cant really add to what has already been said , I loved the Rhyme, Very Freaky, I loved Riley looking all proud with himself after smashing one of the jars, only to then be shown buffy actually meant the box .

I also loved how Buffys first reaction to losing her voice was to call Xander, Willows first reaction was that she had gone Death .

Giles "Seminar" To the gang was also very funny, all in all I loved the humous in this episode!

Buffy and Willows dissaproving look of the guy selling whiteboards, only to buy them

[Allan]

The Olivia and Giles thing is interesting. One one hand, it really didn't do much for me, but on the other hand, it was handled brilliantly, showing that yes, Giles can move on from Jenny, without there being a huge focus on it.

As for the episode on its own, I didn't find it particularly scary. It was creepy in a very Tim Burton way (the nursery rhyme, the Gentlemen, the way many of the scenes were shot), though the way the episode was put together was what really struck a chord with me. It was so polished, and worked fantastically. I really saw some of the actors in a new light by how well they managed to act with no dialogue.

As for the comments on it being slow to get in to, and the opening being necessary, I didn't find it a slow start. And I don't think dialogue in the beginning was absolutely necessary, either. Without it, it would have been a very different episode, though if they just opened with no dialogue, and treated the "why's nobody talking" as a mystery, I think it could have worked well, too.

[Kana]

Ok, don't stake me guys but can I just look at obvious points because I actually kind of liked them.

One of the first things mentioned in the episode is communication. At this point I think it's important that people can speak, because it sets an interesting parallel that things unspoken are still being communicated although on a very subtle way.
Walsh calls Buffy to the front and calls her a typical Californian girl, one assumes. The fact that she is a superbeing is not clear to outside observer.

Although this all happens in a dream, the imagery and messages are important, especially as Buffy's dreams are prophectic. Interestingly Buffy doesn't communicate that she had a romantic dream about Riley. She did, but she doesn't communicate it and she openly lies about her Slaying and Riley doesn't communicate his after hours activities.

Another miscommication is Xander and Anya. She believes Xander is using her. Xander has difficulty communicating in words how much Anya means to him.

Willow has a misintepration of what she would expect from her witchcraft group in UCS. Tara shares her view but has trouble comminicating it to the group.

Giles and Olivia interestingly don't speak that much, they move right on to, well the other thing.

After theire voices are stolen, they obviously find trouble communicating. It's a nice touch that Spike manages to communicate just fine with two fingers lol.

Riley and Buffy seem to communicate more openly without speech. Their hug is more instinctual and natural and of course they kiss. Although they still haven't revealed their secrets they have at least been more candid about how they feel about each other.

The Gentlemen themselves are deceivers. They communicate the 'wrong' message with their smiles and polite demeanour. Although they are ghoulish and their intentions are nefarious, they are ironically called the Gentlemen.

The humorous miscommuication of the word heart as boobies is something I thought was quite funny but we'll move on.

Xander misconstrues that Spike fed on Anya but what is communicated is how much he cares about her. Anya's communication is still as blunt as ever lol.

Riley and Buffy's after hours pursuits are revealed as are Tara and Willow's revelation of the power they possess as witches.

That's all for now.

[Beck]

LOL hun, you didn't give any of your opinions of the episode, thats what this is about

Any more thoughts on Hush?

[Beck]

Amber please pick an episode

[Amber]

Woops, I missed the first episode discussion! Yeep. I'm gonna participate from now on though!

Hmm...How about "Orpheus". I'll watch tomorrow and post my thoughts.

[Beck]

Its been awhile since I have seen Orpheus so I can't remember enough of it to post a lot... anyone?

[Kana]

Orpheus is a great ep citing Faith's journey in redemption. Both Angel and Angelus state that doing one good deed isn't going to make everything ok and that the darkness always lays within.

I enjoyed the fight between Angel and Angelus symbolising the inner struggle Angel goes through everyday.

I love Faith's trick and what it shows. She is willing to risk her own life rather than Angel's.

I'm somewhat conflicted about Willow. It was great to see her and it reminds me of Andrew's foray on Angel. They are made deliberately light to show the contrast of the shows.

Cordy and Willow's comparison reminds me of Buffy and Amy, again, another rehash of dialogue ideas gets me wondering if they are going for a specific effect or if they are running out of comedic devices. I'd opt for the former as Ats humour is always inventive and deliberately riding the lines between 'should I laugh and should be shocked and saddened' well this is true of both shows.

Back to Faith. I believe she continued to show her mettle as a lead character. It was around this time I believe they were comtemplating giving her own series. Seeing the themes and character arcs, she's believeable in my opinion. I think they woul focus less on her journey as a slayer more on her journey as person and this ep is great that it depicts the journey. Even the name Orpheus is reference to the hero's journey into the underworld.

I hated Angel's wig in the alley scene. I just don't get it. They had better wigs in shows and scenes before and after, it looked like this one wasn't on properly.

Charisma's acting almost seemed worse in this episode than normal. Maybe I noticed it more because of the intense Angel/Faith scenes. Also with heavyweights such as Alexis it seemed as though CC is being left behind.

[Allan]

I agree with Kana's post and don't have much more to add there. It's an excellent episode, though I think Willow was out of character. I chalk this up to not so much trying to show the difference between the shows, but trying to make Willow "accessible" to anybody who hasn't seen her on Buffy.

[Beck]

Moving along, Allan want to pick an episode?

[Allan]

Hmm... I somehow managed to miss this yesterday.

I'll pick "Hell's Bells" - it's been ages since I've seen it, so I won't comment too much on it before rewatching it. I figured I'd choose it since there hasn't been a huge deal of discussion on the subject, even with the ramifications of the episode.