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Post by Glenn on Feb 19, 2006 10:53:35 GMT 10
Now Lindsey was evil, no one is denying that but....... Should Angel have used him in the final battle only to turn around and tell Lorne (LORNE!!!! of all people) to shoot and kill him in cold blood remember he is human and champions do not kill humans (Buffy allowed Ben to live even though she knew Glory would one day come back) now no one knows exactly what Lorne had read from Lindsey but should Angel have done the deed himself allowing Lindsey at least to have a chance to fight back Opinions please  |
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Post by Beck on Feb 19, 2006 20:22:54 GMT 10
I hated Lorne killing Lindsey like that. It went against what Angel Investigations stood for - they blatantly betrayed an ally. Even Lorne hated what Angel had asked him to do. Lindsey may not have been all good, but he wasn't evil either. He did agree to help bring down W&H and he has shown previously that he can't stomach truly horrific evil deeds.
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Post by buffymanic on Feb 20, 2006 5:34:24 GMT 10
Yeh but Angel knew Lindsey would stab him in the back again and if he expected to live through the big battle he didn't need to be looking for Lindsey all the time.
I thought it was a great way to kill him because Lindsey just couldn't believe who it was doing it!
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Post by buffymanic on Jul 27, 2006 6:38:56 GMT 10
wow only two replie for this! somebody else muct have an opinion
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2006 7:03:51 GMT 10
It's been a while since I've seen it, but Lorne surprised me throughout that whole episode--especially that he was chosen to kill Lindsay. I had always figured that Angel would want to do it himself. However, I started thinking about it and thought that maybe Angel was trying to send a message to Lindsay--that he was insignificant and not worthy of his time and energy. That sounds harsh now that I'm saying (well, typing) it, but a lot of Lindsay's character for me was this big ego that kept getting blown up, so it was like Angel's final blow to Lindsay was to deflate him.
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Post by buffymanic on Jul 27, 2006 8:07:19 GMT 10
exactly and I think it works perfectly! plus it makes sense that Lorne would want nothing to do with Angel after that
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Post by Lexie on Jul 27, 2006 14:00:36 GMT 10
I definitly agree, Marie. Great insight there. I also happen to love how Lindsay's last word is "Angel."
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Post by Kana on Aug 4, 2006 6:03:21 GMT 10
It's been a while since I've seen it, but Lorne surprised me throughout that whole episode--especially that he was chosen to kill Lindsay. I had always figured that Angel would want to do it himself. However, I started thinking about it and thought that maybe Angel was trying to send a message to Lindsay--that he was insignificant and not worthy of his time and energy. That sounds harsh now that I'm saying (well, typing) it, but a lot of Lindsay's character for me was this big ego that kept getting blown up, so it was like Angel's final blow to Lindsay was to deflate him. I'm not sure if this was a conscious effort on Angel's part but you're right in a way. Angel was the centre of Lindsay's universe but it wasn't the other way round, it never was, not exclusively. I mean for example in Season 2 Angel was obsessed with bringing W&H down not Lindsay specifically. |
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Post by buffymanic on Aug 4, 2006 7:17:24 GMT 10
your right but what really matter is that Angel was Lindseys center. I think he would have still been insulted if say Gunn or Wes had killed him but he would never be satisfied, he would never have thought to have a 'good' 'honourable' death unless Angel killed him
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Post by Beck on Sept 11, 2006 15:58:27 GMT 10
I think it was intentional that Angel didnt kill Lindsey himself. And not only that, but he sent Lorne - not one of his strong fighters. It was definately meant as a blow to Lindsey, a message that he was not worth Angel's time and not important enough for Angel to kill himself. I actually think this was pretty petty on Angel's part. He betrayed an ally, he and Lindsey may have not been allies in the past - but at that point in time they were. So he didnt think Lindsey was part of the solution... so much for redemption  I don't think it was an in character thing to do and I was disgusted that he made Lorne, a peaceful person, kill a human like that. I don't blame Lorne for wanting to disappear after that. |
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Post by Kana on Sept 11, 2006 17:17:44 GMT 10
I still think that's speculative. Angel had a big mission bringing down the Black Thorn, he was busy as was the rest of the team, Angel had one more job as Lorne believed he was the weak link.
Lorne was truly burdened with, not only what he did to Lindsay but everything that's come with Wolfram and Hart. For someone who supposedly never judged he felt Angel had crossed the line. Although he understood Angel hadn't been corrupted he still thoughts the methods he used to fight the senior partners were too morally ambiguous. It's a huge development for Lorne characterwise but saddening to see that he was made to cross the line one more time.
As for Lindsay's redemption? It was never his intention. Don't forget Lorne heard Lindsay sing and knew path would lie as a contributary factor to evil, hence that's why he agreed to kill him.
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Post by shred on Jan 2, 2007 17:48:09 GMT 10
What I hated the most was that it was Lorne who killed Lindsey. I think I would have a different reaction to Lindsey's death if it was Angel or Wesley who shot him. It goes everything that Lorne stood fo when he shot Lindsey.
Whether or not Lindsey should have been killed is really up for debate. On one hand, I think he should have been gotten rid off but one the other hand, was it wise? I don't believe that Lindsey was evil. He was doing what he knows he should do in order to outrun the Senior Partners and to survive. Though the things he did was considered evil, I wouldn't call him evil. He wasn't Lilah evil. He was just trying to survive, in my opinion.
In that line of view, I don't think it was wise to kill Lindsey. But seeing how he's capable of many bad and evil things, Angel was right to get rid of him in order to make sure that he won't cause more trouble in the future. So really, it's hard to say whether or not it was right to kill him.
Nevertheless, what I hated the most was who killed him and how. Lorne was never a person of violence and to see him put two bullets into Lindsey without hardly blinking is just shocking. Absolutely shocking.
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Post by Allan on Jan 2, 2007 22:21:08 GMT 10
I always saw Lorne's killing of Lindsey as a tactical move on Angel's part.
As far as Angel knew, Lindsey would have betrayed him. And with the way things were going, and the battle that would ensue afterwards, Angel couldn't afford to have Lindsey betray him on top of it all.
Why get Lorne?
I see two reasons:
1. He's not a great fighter. Gunn, Wesley, Illyria and Angel were all playing their parts, where their strengths were needed.
2. For a double cross, Lindsey would be least likely to suspect Lorne.
I don't think Angel was doing it as a "screw you" to Lindsey by any stretch of the imagination, he played it the way he had to play it.
And as for Lorne, it took it's toll on him. He crossed a line, and then he was done with Angel.
And besides, it made for an awesome twist!
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Post by shred on Jan 3, 2007 15:59:51 GMT 10
And besides, it made for an awesome twist!  Yeah, it did make a good twist. I think if we were to understand how and why Lorne changed so much, it would have been more believeable and understandable to see Lorne killing Lindsey - it might even be in character for him. But unfortunately we didn't see the changes that Lorne go through so it was a bit difficult to understand how Lorne could kill Lindsey without much protest.  |
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Post by Allan on Jan 3, 2007 22:50:52 GMT 10
I think Fred's death put Lorne through the wringer.
Also, while the character's always been a pacifist, and always tried to remain neutral, I think he also saw the greater good. Achieving it was too much for him, though.
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Post by Alissa on Apr 1, 2007 13:58:25 GMT 10
I really hated the way Lindsey died. Actually, I just hated that he died. I get why Angel had to do it, but I just hated it. And Lorne killing him was definitely a disappointment-- we didn't even get to see Angel and Lindsey fight to the death. |
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Post by Allan on Apr 1, 2007 22:39:22 GMT 10
And Lorne killing him was definitely a disappointment-- we didn't even get to see Angel and Lindsey fight to the death. That was the entire point of getting Lorne to do it. With everything going on, Lindsey wasn't important. |
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Post by Alissa on Apr 2, 2007 2:25:14 GMT 10
Yeah, I get that, but I still would have liked to have seen a final battle between Angel and Lindsey.  |
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Post by Allan on Apr 4, 2007 15:48:24 GMT 10
In my mind if they'd gone that route, it really would have just proved to be pointless.
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Post by Laura on Apr 5, 2007 9:27:45 GMT 10
I never liked the way Lindsey died. It may have been too much to ask for another chance, but nevertheless I think he deserved one. Angel never gave up on Faith, when she tried to kill him and Buffy, so why would he give up on Lindsey? I don't know if Lindsey ever could have really been good, but he was making progress. Plus, Wolfram and Hart would be destroyed after Not Fade Away, and that was the main point of his temptation to be evil. I also hated that Lorne killed him. What an awful way to kill a good character . |
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I don't think it was an in character thing to do and I was disgusted that he made Lorne, a peaceful person, kill a human like that. I don't blame Lorne for wanting to disappear after that.
Yeah, it did make a good twist. 
