Bangel

[jennifer]

Who cares if it was wrong? Its meant to be, otherwise it wouldn't be a forbidden love would it? Angel was socially inept when he fell in love with Buffy, and Buffy was mature for her age and aware of the world's dangers. I don't remember her two parental figures, Giles or Joyce saying it was wrong because of her age and his, it was wrong because he's a vampire. Vampires all stalk too, its what they do. He was looking out for Buffy in the only way he knew how.

[buffymanic]

was because of Joyce that Angel decided to break up with Buffy and one of the things she mentioned was Buffy's age. But personally I wouldn't think it matters

[Beck]

I think it was the thing with her needing to grow up and him never growing up I don't know. But regardless of what her mum said - I still found it kind of funky

[Loz]

buffymanic said:

was because of Joyce that Angel decided to break up with Buffy and one of the things she mentioned was Buffy's age. But personally I wouldn't think it matters

It was because he'd been given his own show i believe

I don't think Angel broke up with Buffy because of Joyce. I think he did it because he genuinely believed he was doing what was best for her. He said he'd been thinking about it to Joyce and i think he most definitely had. If anything it was what The Mayor said to them that would have got him thinking.

[Lexie]

I think the Mayor got him thinking about it and when Joyce came it firmly made him decide it was the right thing to do (whether or not it really changed things for Buffy)

And Beck, did you think it was weird when you first watched it or after you decided you didn't like Buffy and Angel as a relationship?

[Beck]

Yes I found it weird then. And hun I didnt 'just decide' I didnt like them as a couple. There are reasons I don't like them as a couple. A lot of that is to do with the way they interact together, I love Angel on his own show, then put him with Buffy and he's even more broody, whiny, immature and not a character I enjoy watching. On Buffy, he's fairly boring imo, though nice eye candy. There are some Bangel moments I like. I love the episode Angel in season one. I loved I Will Remember You. Episodes were they were reasonably happy together and not bringing out unflattering traits that I find annoying to watch. The other main reason - its too corny for my liking. I always flash to that scene in Reptile Boy "When you kiss me I want to die." :sick: Not my cup of tea.

[buffymanic]

ah all those are reasons why I love them. I the fantasy and all the corney bits that make you want to hurl! Its a romance that some 15/16 yr old girls dream off......... he's the tall, dark and handsome stranger that is caring, loving and mysterious! Its what appeals to a lot of young girls

[Paul]

its kinda creepy tho i think, in season 1 of buffy angels 200 years plus some and buffys a schoolgirl and angel was stalking her before she came to sunnydale, its not right

[Shaun]

Angel wasn't stalking Buffy He was shown the slayer being called by Whistler and then watching her work. He wasn't watching a schoolgirl for his own perverse reasons Buffy also knew about him coming to Sunnydale for that and she never saw it as stalking.

[Beck]

I still see it as creepy old man watching lollypop sucking schoolgirl Even counting his human age of 26 its creepy. Anyways even if you don't count that as stalking, how about him stalking her in Welcome to the Hellmouth? Instead of approaching her, he follows her (into a dark alley no less) and its only because she sensed him and kicked him in the head that they spoke. Creepy again, if someone was following me like that at night I would be very very creeped out no matter what their reason was. He stalks her again in Pangs, fair enough he went to help her after Doyle's vision but not only does he follow her around, he brings her friends in on the deception. Then in The Girl in Question its revealed again that he has people spying on her! If he's so concerned about her well being, a call to check on her is what normal non-stalky people do

[Glenn]

Angel didnt exactly have the best people skills at first did he. He left a hotel full of people to be consumed, fed off of a dead shop guy and then was chasing rats in alleys. You see how bad he sucked at starting a conversation with that girl in City of as well. He sucks at it. It may not have been smart but it was probably his best choice. Plus it led to a great entrance scene for him, with lotsa sparkage.

Angel wasnt exactly perving at her when Whistler took him to see her at school whichis the difference between him and creepy old men.

[Beck]

Ah but he was perving on her - thats when he fell in love with her according to him in Helpless His people skills weren't that terrible by Pangs and The Girl in Question either... whats his excuse for spying/stalking her then?

[Glenn]

Fallig in Love and lusting after someone are different, though not Spikey wikey

Pangs he explained, he didnt want to open up old wounds, and The Girl In Question none of the scoobies trusted his group. I doubt he would have gotten through to her or that she would have spoken to him.

[Beck]

So he couldn't trust that the Slayer, surrounded by other slayers, and a very powerful witch, couldn't look after herself? He has to SPY on her? Thats wrong imo, no excuse for it. I wouldn't trust someone who spied on me either

And uh, he fell in love with her on sight. He never spoke to her, never got to know her, its highly unlikely that her looks played NO part in it.

[Glenn]

Angel: I saw you before you became the Slayer.
Buffy: What?
Angel: I watched you, and I saw you called. It was a bright afternoon out in front of your school. You walked down the steps... and...and I loved you.
Buffy: Why?
Angel: 'Cause I could see your heart. You held it before you for everyone to see. And I worried that it would be bruised or torn. And more than anything in my life I wanted to keep it safe... to warm it with my own.

You are just a cynic

Even Spike was with Angel, so far as to suggest putting her in a box or doing a spell.

[Beck]

Oh pfft those lines of Angel's further prove the past argument that this ship is so utterly corny And its a load of bollocks too - Buffy was being a Cordelia when Angel saw her, uh huh she looked so vulnerable then He was hardly going to say "I loved you cause you're hot and I'm a dirty old vampire" now was he? OK ok I'm stirring, but to me those lines are still bollocks.

Spike's judgement is also lacking. Since when is he a good example of common sense?

[Bre]

Woah, okay it is creepy if you think of it in the literal sense (Angel stalking Buffy before they met). Sure. But I do believe in love at first site, and I think Angel did sense something in Buffy blah. And plus, he is a vamp. He stalks.

And yes there relationship had corny moments, but the corny moments are also touching moments, so I'm okay with it. It was just boring at times and needed spice, and I think Spuffy had every quality a relationship needed (for entertainment).

[Glenn]

How can you love the Touched speech but not the things Angel says Beck. And calling it bollocks isnt very fair, she wasnt being a Cordelia, she wasnt picking on anyone. And i dont think he was just referencing the steps watching. He watched her first staking and the reaction it had with her parents and she looked so sad and hurt and very vulnerable.

Also glad you added the "for entertainment" bit at the end there Bre

[Beck]

Oh shut up Glenn

[Kana]

Bangel typifies the idealistic expectation of love rather the stark reality that Spuffy provides. Our own perception on the relationships is colour, perhaps by our own experiences.

As for Angel being creepy? Well, yeah. Why did he frighten Cordy in SAR? It's like his old habits die hard. Maybe the modes 'bite and avoid' are hard to shift for Angel.